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Law Dean, Jay Mootz, McGeorge School Of Law, University Of The Pacific Show 018

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Law School, student loan debt, Dean, educator

0:00you’re listening to the listen up show
0:01dart of entrepreneur podcast I’m
0:03Mitchell Chad row your host today’s
0:05guest is Jay moots on this show 01 AJ is
0:10the Dean and professor of law at the
0:12University of the Pacific McGeorge
0:14School of Law in Sacramento California
0:17and Jay has played a major role in
0:19reshaping education in this country for
0:22someone faced with career challenges and
0:25tasks listen up to the way Jay dealt
0:27with those issues and came up with
0:29various solutions and how you can apply
0:32this in your own business or career he
0:35was also professor of law and associate
0:38dean at the University of Nevada of Las
0:40Vegas also William and Mary law
0:43associate dean at Penn State University
0:46Dickinson school of law he was a
0:48business litigator for halloran and sage
0:51in Hartford Connecticut and after four
0:53years he transitioned into academia he
0:56went to Duke law school friends your
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1:45Chad Road calm / sign up now enjoy the
1:48show today show we interview J mu Dean
1:52of the mcgeorge law school we will
1:54discuss journey over the last 26 years
1:57of his career and becoming Dean we also
1:59talked about the high cost of
2:01administration overhead and academia how
2:04the silo effect can trap you in certain
2:06frames of reference and the need to
2:08break out a certain mindset how the law
2:11school is adding classes for those who
2:13want to practice law or are more
2:15entrepreneurial we also talked about the
2:17student loan debt crisis and the
2:19strategies that students can use with
2:21higher claws at public schools versus
2:23private tuition taking personal agency
2:26over how you manage your debt structure
2:28in addition to the student debt we
2:30explore job prospects and resources
2:33provided to the student creating global
2:35international externship and jobs abroad
2:37and providing exposure to other legal
2:39systems we talk about breaking out from
2:42the silo focus and using resources that
2:44are provided to the student guarding
2:46their own practices or obtaining
2:47professional employment building a
2:49career as a professional have what it
2:51means to be a professional professionals
2:53also using social media and leveraging
2:56it to their professional way and now on
2:58to the shop thanks for joining us Jay
3:01well thank you for inviting me certainly
3:03to Jay tell us about your journey to
3:05become the Dean for the mcgeorge law
3:08school well one of the things I’ve
3:10learned in my life is it’s important to
3:12plan your career but it’s also an
3:14impossible task I was practicing law and
3:17hartford connecticut and i won an award
3:21for a little essay on the bicentennial
3:23of the constitution and they decided to
3:26take the earnings and use them to get my
3:28master’s thesis I have a master’s in
3:31philosophy I wrote about law I got that
3:34typed up and published and that led to
3:37outreach from a professor who said have
3:40you ever thought about being in the
3:42Academy and as an undergraduate I always
3:45thought I wanted to be a history
3:46professor so it awakens something and 26
3:50years later I’m now the Dean of a law
3:52school and in teaching so I think what I
3:55would say is I always thought of myself
3:59as academically inclined but it was it
4:02was some fortuitous circumstances that
4:05led me to where I am now our start up
4:07around for all your hosting needs head
4:10on over to Mitchell Chad Road calm /
4:13hosting Mitchell Chad road calm flash
4:15hosting for all your web hosting need
4:18who do you use to host this website to
4:20talk to us about the challenges that
4:23that you faced over these several years
4:25is game well the
4:27I became Dean in I signed my contract
4:29January fifth 2012 which was right about
4:33the point in time where legal education
4:35was was recognizing that we didn’t have
4:38a blip on the screen but we had really a
4:40structural change that had occurred both
4:43in legal practice and it was affecting
4:45legal education and it was it was pretty
4:49intense I was still on the faculty at
4:52UNLV and associate dean there but I flew
4:55up every friday from January until my
4:58term started on june first and actually
5:02presented a budget to the president of
5:05the university in April before I even
5:07technically was Dean that proposed cuts
5:10staff cuts I mean we had to immediately
5:13address the high cost of overhead and
5:16restructure the law school so right from
5:19the very first before i was even
5:21formally dean once i was appointed it
5:25was a very intense experience can you
5:28tell us a little bit about the value of
5:30dual degree programs and complimentary
5:33undergraduate degrees based on some of
5:36the challenges especially that you’ve
5:38faced over these years is Dean yeah
5:42that’s a great question my degree my
5:45degree of Duke in philosophy was part of
5:49one of the first joint degree programs
5:51now they’re quite common in law school
5:53and it was great for me not in a
5:58utilitarian sense but just in a
6:00broadening sense one of the problems we
6:02have in higher education is the silo
6:05effect and you get trapped within a
6:07particular methodology frame of
6:10reference set of historical literature
6:13so walking across the Duke campus in
6:15taking philosophy courses during the
6:18entire time I was in law school I think
6:21it helped me to break out of that that
6:23mindset so it’s not something that’s
6:27instrumental in a direct way but it’s
6:31more about the great tradition of
6:32liberal arts is you you need to know a
6:35lot a little bit about a lot of things
6:37as well as knowing a lot about
6:40a focused area in order to be successful
6:43and I and I have found that that has
6:45stood me in good stead and now is Dean
6:48of mcgeorge I’m really trying to
6:50implement the same thing here on our
6:52campus we were a law only campus we’re
6:54now adding other graduate programs the
6:57main universities in Stockton California
6:59and we’re adding within the law school
7:02of public policy and public public
7:05administration degrees we already have a
7:07law degree for folks who don’t want to
7:09practice law so there’s lobbyists and
7:11human resource professionals and I think
7:15what we’re trying to create here is what
7:18joint degree programs were designed to
7:21do and that’s to really provide
7:23broadening even as the JD students are
7:25really focused on law they will have a
7:28few classes and some people in their JD
7:30classes who come from a different
7:32perspective and I think that’s just
7:34critical in today’s world and economy
7:37you know we we hear a lot about the
7:39student debt crisis and that’s that’s
7:43coming down the pike can you talk to us
7:45a little bit about some student debt
7:47strategies that you can impart on the
7:50audience whether they be law students or
7:53just college students in general but
7:55just some student debt strategies based
7:58on your experience at all these various
8:01universities yeah and that is a great
8:03question and it’s it’s not an easy easy
8:06one to answer it’s very clear that
8:09professors are not making all the money
8:13that that has been added to higher
8:15education just to give you an example I
8:17believe now the average private law
8:20school is charging about two-and-a-half
8:22times what I paid in adjusted dollars
8:24when I went to law school and you say
8:28well who’s taking all this money and how
8:30can we control costs it’s really much
8:33more on the administrative side of
8:35universities rather than professors
8:37making million dollar salaries that’s
8:40just not the way it works and the
8:41administrative side is because colleges
8:45and universities are now very complex
8:47organizations we have title nine
8:50responsibilities to
8:52protect the integrity of the campus for
8:54all students we have incredible
8:57accreditation reporting requirements so
9:00it’s really a very heavily regulated
9:03environment that takes a lot of
9:06administrative folks to run now could
9:08universities be more more efficient of
9:13course and I think we have to strive to
9:15do so so the first step in addressing
9:18student debt is to recognize there
9:20really has been a tremendous increase in
9:23the actual cost and that’s not easy to
9:26solve the other thing I would I would
9:28urge all students is to very carefully
9:31consider adding to their debt and what I
9:35mean by that is it’s now possible to
9:38borrow living expenses and students can
9:41study abroad in the summer and so forth
9:44these this is all great but I think you
9:47really have to take personal agency over
9:51the amount of debt you’re accumulating
9:52because it’s just too easy i think over
9:56four years of undergrad and three years
9:57of law school to just accumulate far
10:01more debt then then you might recognize
10:03and so we have excellent summer programs
10:07but we actually try to caution our
10:10students think about the impact on your
10:12student debt load maybe it would be
10:15better to to work over the summer rather
10:17than have this great summer experience
10:19that will help you to and it will help
10:21you keep your debt under control but the
10:24bottom line is there is no silver bullet
10:26costs have dramatically increased
10:28there’s no easy way to cut them students
10:31really need to borrow because they’re
10:35very few families who have this type of
10:37cash sitting around and really what we
10:41need is some sort of structural change
10:43and I don’t see that happening we have
10:45Bernie Sanders famously arguing for free
10:48college tuitions in certain cases but
10:52unlike Europe and South America most
10:55education is privatized here in
10:57California the UC system charges private
11:02school tuition for law school so UC
11:05down the road from from my law school
11:07they’re a state school I’m a private
11:10school they charge more for their law
11:12school tuition than we do so we’ve
11:15really privatized graduate education
11:17it’s expensive to provide and in our
11:21country there’s not a lot of people who
11:23have that kind of cash so it inevitably
11:26leads to student debt and all I would
11:29say is a legal education is a great
11:32investment just take personal agency try
11:35to minimize your debt and and that’s
11:40that’s really about it unless we have a
11:42structural change you know there’s lots
11:45of jobs for us attorneys overseas right
11:48now and I wonder if you’re actually
11:50developing and training for that
11:53specifically well we here at mcgeorge we
11:57have three centers of excellence one of
11:59them is global studies or international
12:02and we try to get students into
12:04externships and ultimately jobs that are
12:08abroad and try to expose them to
12:11different legal systems because that
12:13that is certainly the case even
12:14practicing law here in California you
12:18are going to interact with other legal
12:20systems Mexico the Far East the you so
12:24yeah that is it’s definitely one of my
12:27strategies as a Dean in our school
12:29strategy and this is not sort of
12:32international human rights and just sort
12:36of the top end areas that are that are
12:40very important but also there’s there’s
12:42only so many positions but really
12:45dealing with transnational business
12:47practices family law issues and so forth
12:50immigration of course is a huge area of
12:53law and absolutely I think if you’re
12:56going to be ready for the modern economy
13:00and the modern legal economy you have to
13:03have a sense of what’s going on outside
13:05our border now you mentioned modern
13:06economies but I mean the role of
13:08American law and preparing students in
13:10the legal industry for example in
13:12developing economies like for example
13:13India and countries like that you know
13:16are you are you expanding
13:18you know to to also include you know the
13:21developing economies as well yeah we
13:22have a very successful summer program in
13:26Guatemala in Antigua Guatemala that
13:30really tries to understand how law some
13:34of the issues there we have some
13:37externships available in Africa and of
13:42course that’s a big issue and even some
13:45of the EU type positions we have are
13:47really the rule of law based how do how
13:51do the United States has an incredibly
13:53important structure where the economy
13:56the political system everything is
13:58structured through law and it’s not that
14:02way in the rest of the world we right
14:04now are involved in a in a collaboration
14:06with three other US law schools in
14:08trying to help Russian law schools learn
14:11how to teach experientially so that
14:14legal education traditionally in in
14:17European and South American countries is
14:19much more lecture based and the US has
14:22really led the way in teaching new
14:27lawyers by by having them do what
14:29lawyers do but of course this goes both
14:33ways right now for instance in Mexico
14:36the criminal justice system is moving to
14:38an adversarial system so we can learn as
14:42they transition and as they consider
14:45certain features of the criminal system
14:46to help us understand our system better
14:49and some of the weaknesses and how we
14:51might change that so we just had a group
14:54of Mexican students on on our campus and
14:57we provided you know a series of
14:59lectures and we hope to have our
15:01students be able to do the same thing at
15:03their school and it yeah I think it’s
15:07beneficial to the other countries but i
15:09want to emphasize it also helps you
15:11widen your perspective as a lawyer and
15:14this kind of goes back to the joint a
15:15great question i think always trying to
15:18break out of a siloed approach or a
15:21siloed understanding is just key if
15:24you’re going to be a successful lawyer
15:25you know on the on the listen up podcast
15:27here we we helped a lot of you know
15:29young entrepreneurs new on
15:31open doors business owners professionals
15:33are da what are some of the resources
15:34for the student year to start their own
15:37practice as they transition from
15:39graduation to passing the bar and then
15:41sort of you know having their own
15:43practice in the various communities that
15:46are involved in that is a great question
15:49Mitchell and it it’s one of the things
15:51that legal education has not been
15:54addressing well in past years students
15:58when I first became Dean I met with the
16:00student bar association group of
16:02officers and the president said okay
16:05what are you going to do to get us jobs
16:07and I said well let’s back up you’re
16:11creating a professional career I think
16:14in the past we’ve we’ve assumed that
16:18lawyers are employees and you go to law
16:20school and then someone hires you and in
16:23fact almost half of lawyers in this
16:25country are either solo or two firm
16:28practitioners and this has always been
16:30part of the way our system structured
16:33and lawyers have the opportunity to be
16:35very entrepreneurial but if you don’t
16:38structure the education in that way then
16:40it’s much more difficult so one of the
16:42first things I did is we do have a law
16:44practice management course the faculty
16:48just approved a new required course for
16:50all students in the spring of the first
16:52year called the legal profession which
16:55teaches them if it’s it’s not really
16:57ethics it’s more what does it mean to be
17:00a professional how do you build a career
17:02of satisfying career as a professional
17:04and then we have things like a small
17:09business clinic and you know try to
17:11shape some of our clinical experiences
17:14for students to the kind of practice
17:16they’re going to face so they have to
17:18learn how to use conflict systems really
17:21sort of the basics of how do you set up
17:23a law firm practice so it’s not the
17:25substance as much as is the structure
17:28and I think that’s very important I
17:30haven’t practiced law in 26 years and i
17:32use my legal education every day without
17:36a doubt and i feel that enables me to be
17:39an entrepreneurial leader as a Dean and
17:43so we want to give that to stew
17:45but also some of the technical just
17:48knowledge they need to have to
17:50understand what it means to be a
17:51professional you’re not just a business
17:53you’re not just an employee you are
17:56professional mm-hmm and you know taking
17:59it one step further we talked a little
18:01bit about you know moving into their own
18:04practice but they’re not just an
18:05employee that they’re a professional you
18:07know in terms of you know not only
18:09helping them find jobs but creating the
18:12opportunities so that they can gain
18:14practical experience and begin to help
18:18in the law even before they graduate
18:20maybe talk to us a little bit about some
18:23of the ways that you partner the
18:26students up with clients before they’re
18:29even in the community as legal
18:32professionals yeah the primary way is
18:35clinics but that’s very intense and
18:38somewhat limited in numbers so the other
18:40thing we do here at mcgeorge we require
18:43about 15 credits of experiential
18:45learning and we have a whole series of
18:48externships now some of these are
18:49judicial externships but we have quite a
18:52few that are much more suited for
18:56someone who wants to take a more
18:58entrepreneurial focus in building their
19:01profession and even a few opportunities
19:04after graduation and before the bar
19:07results are known we make make it
19:12possible for students to work for small
19:13firms small nonprofits as part of that
19:17transition and really in the past there
19:20was not much of a transition in legal
19:22education you got hired the law firm
19:24trained you in the way they wanted you
19:26to be a professional and that’s just it
19:30was never that was never the way that
19:33every student experienced it that it’s
19:35becoming less and less the case so we
19:38try to provide that both through
19:39externships through the way our Career
19:42Development Office works our alumni are
19:44great they come back to campus we have
19:47programs all the time plaintiffs
19:50employment work what does that look like
19:51what what type of work do you do how do
19:54you network one of our graduates is one
19:56of the leading
19:58consultants on lawyer use of social
20:00media he’s coming down from seattle in
20:03the fall to talk about how you leverage
20:05social media in a very professional way
20:08but in a way that gets you out there and
20:10get you connected with people who are
20:12looking for your expertise so it’s a
20:14there’s no single strategy I think I
20:18think it’s our job as legal educators to
20:20really draw on our alumni the people out
20:23there and say help us to ensure that our
20:26students understand what that world is
20:29like out there it’s not just text books
20:31it’s your really have to create a
20:33professional path for yourself and we
20:37want to give you all the tools to do
20:38that what are some of your goals injury
20:40well I’m pretty old so now I’m sure
20:44you’re not that old but now i just i
20:47just turned 55 and it’s interesting i’ve
20:50decided i I have the fifth year of my
20:53Dean contract in this coming year and
20:55after that I’m going to return to the
20:57faculty and that’s because I feel like
20:59I’ve really done a lot during tumultuous
21:02times over the past four years and I’ve
21:04got a year to finish some of those
21:06projects but I really want to get back
21:09to the classroom one of the downsides
21:11when you’re an associate dean you still
21:14can teach you’re still involved as a
21:17Dean particularly in these days you you
21:20it’s inevitable that you get
21:22disconnected from the basic sort of
21:24educational operation everything is is
21:27it’s like being a CEO of a small company
21:30and I’ve decided I didn’t want to finish
21:32as an administrator I want to finish as
21:35a teacher and a someone who you know is
21:39more deeply involved in individual
21:41student success and I sort of learned
21:45that I’m have a research assistant right
21:47now I’m working with because I do try to
21:49still do some scholarship it was just
21:52great getting to know him and I and I
21:54taught our new required course in
21:57statutes and regulations the first two
22:00years it was offered I caught on our
22:01evening program and it just was too hard
22:04to teach and be Dean and I thought you
22:06know I’m going to do one more year
22:08finish out my five-year contract and
22:11my dream is really to be a professor and
22:14help shape students lives on a more
22:16individual level being Dean is important
22:18but I think being on the front lines as
22:21the professor is important to tell us
22:23tell us some of your career successes I
22:25mean you know you say you’re 55 and
22:28you’re going to go back to to being a
22:32professor after one more year of being
22:34Dean but but talk to us a little bit
22:36about some of your your successes well
22:40I’ll tell you and before the podcast
22:45began you you reminded me of our
22:48connection at Penn State and in a way I
22:52think my successes are unknown to me
22:54because I’ve made connections with
22:56individuals and then out of the blue
22:58when I became Dean here at mcgeorge out
23:01of the blue one of the first students I
23:03ever taught in my contracts class
23:05reached out and said hey Dean moose
23:08that’s great you’re a Dean you know I
23:10still remember your contracts class I
23:13think that’s the what I would take the
23:16most pride in is knowing that you know
23:18and and some students I’m sure had very
23:20negative experiences with me that the
23:22way life is but that they’re a group of
23:24folks out there the weather I remember
23:26it and they remember it there was some
23:28connection and shaping early in my
23:31career as a professor people would say
23:33what do you do and i would say i’m a
23:34teacher and they would follow what in
23:37grade school and high school i’d say no
23:39in law school oh your professor i’m
23:43proud to be a professor but i but i
23:45really think of it as teaching and it’s
23:47so that’s very important I’ve sort of
23:51charted a lonely path in applying some
23:55contemporary European philosophy to the
23:59legal system and challenging some of the
24:01more commonplace approaches I found that
24:04very rewarding to try to bring a
24:07different angle to bear I think in my
24:11administrative roles it’s been very
24:13satisfying to to be a leader and to have
24:17faculty and staff say you know we don’t
24:22know exactly where we’re going but
24:24you’re getting
24:25moving and we’re going to sort this out
24:26collectively unlike a business where you
24:30can order people around faculties or
24:32collectives and in getting my faculty
24:35here mcgeorge is wonderful and they came
24:37together and really reformed the
24:39curriculum and it wasn’t my ideas about
24:43how the curriculum should be or wasn’t
24:44me doing it but I think I do feel proud
24:47that I was able to provide the
24:49environment through leadership where the
24:51faculty really came together and did
24:53some important work for our students so
24:55I don’t think one thing sticks out in
24:57particular but from the individual
24:59student to serving an administrative
25:02capacity I I feel you know like it’s
25:06been a good career and I want to go back
25:08to the individual student part and you
25:12know I just had an open house for
25:15admitted students here on campus and I
25:18told them when I say to everyone I don’t
25:21want to live in a country that doesn’t
25:22have lawyers I’m proud of legal
25:24education I’m proud of the role lawyers
25:27play of course there are a lot of
25:29problems and student debt and what are
25:31the job prospects and but essentially
25:35almost my entire career has been devoted
25:38to legal education and I’m very proud to
25:40have contributed to that our fastpitch
25:43Mitchell Chad road calm / books for
25:47books audiobooks guess recommendations
25:50and the books that I read to start off
25:53each day sponsors are fastpitch my book
25:57club recommendations that get Mitchell
25:59Chad road calm / books to see more of my
26:03recommendations and recommendations of
26:05our guests just go to Mitchell Chad Road
26:07calm / books it’s your number one
26:10resource for book reviews and
26:12recommendations so our first question in
26:15this round is what one thing contributes
26:18most to your success my education and
26:21the best business advice you ever got my
26:23best business advice I ever got was on
26:26the first day of being a lawyer when the
26:27client said if I ask you a question
26:30don’t say that’s a business question not
26:32a legal question because I know it’s a
26:35business question I want your advice and
26:38that really stuck with me that lawyers
26:40are not there to give technical legal
26:42responses they’re there to give advice
26:44based on a whole variety of neck so name
26:47a book that has helped you either in
26:49business family or life mmm business
26:52family or life this is going to be a
26:54strange answer but I’d have to say the
26:56first circle by alexander solzhenitsyn
26:58which is a novel about the gulag in
27:02russia but it’s just chock full of life
27:07lessons and a lot of them have stuck
27:11with me and the app that you use to help
27:13you either in business or family or life
27:15one that you can you can recommend to
27:18our audience I am now tweeting and
27:22finding that very interesting so I’m a
27:24newcomer to tweeting but I do find it a
27:27very interesting way to to engage folks
27:30differently so that would be number one
27:33at the moment yep and a quote were a
27:35mantra that you use to inspire and
27:37motivate how will this help the students
27:40because I know the school’s motto is
27:41lawyers for what’s neck which is really
27:44cool a fun fact about you well I used to
27:48be a second-degree black belt I’m afraid
27:52I’ve gotten away from physical fitness
27:54recently but that’s something that
27:57sometimes surprised how can people
27:59before we give some parting words of
28:01wisdom maybe that you can provide to to
28:04the audience as we say goodbye and then
28:06how people can keep in contact with you
28:08Jay um partying wisdom well how about
28:11something from my from the book i just
28:14mentioned one of the prisoners in the
28:17gulag is explaining to another the most
28:19important thing in life and he called it
28:21the the one percent rule that everyone
28:24can do 99% of a job but what really sets
28:27you apart is when you do one percent of
28:30a task or job and that’s always struck
28:32me as when you go the extra mile it pays
28:35off down the line somehow taking the
28:38easy easy corner cut just is never a
28:42good thing to do so I I think I’ve
28:44learned that and it’s definitely paid
28:47off for me when when I followed that
28:51so what was the other the other question
28:53and how can people stay in contact with
28:55you you know because we’ll have all of
28:58the notes and all of the links back at
29:00Mitchell Chad / 0 0 18 and this
29:05way you know people can stay in touch
29:07with you sure I’m available at JJ y dot
29:11boots m 00 TZ @ and my twitter
29:16handle is j aym 00 TZ love to have folks
29:21follow and engage in continuing
29:23conversation j this has been really
29:26super we all want to thank you so much
29:28for coming on the show I know that
29:30everybody is really going to enjoy it
29:31and we look forward to finding out you
29:35know what’s next for you so you take
29:37care and we hope to be in touch real
29:39soon thank you very much Mitchell hey
29:40Carrie our wrap-up round Mitchell Chad / photos for all your graphic
29:48design need I really had a great time
29:50interviewing Jay moot the being of the
29:53mcgeorge law school so what do we learn
29:55today it’s important to plan your career
29:57by an impossible task because some
30:00things are just fortuitous there’s also
30:01the high cost of education which is
30:04mostly administration overhead for title
30:069 and keeping up with the accreditation
30:08using joint degrees can broaden your
30:10experience which he’ll do dance break
30:12out of the silo effect which tends to
30:14trap them into a set frame of reference
30:16the mcgeorge law school is adding public
30:18policy and public administration courses
30:20to expand on the traditional law degree
30:23which offers additional classes from
30:25those that you for those who don’t
30:27actually want to practice law and want
30:29to for example focus on HR or some other
30:33aspect of the law the cost of law school
30:35he said was actually two and a half
30:37times more in adjusted dollars today
30:40than the Dean actually paid when he went
30:42to law school for example the cost to go
30:44to UC Davis which is a public school is
30:47actually more expensive than his private
30:49school most families just don’t have the
30:51cash necessary to pay the full tuition
30:53so they need to borrow however you must
30:55control the amount of debt and take
30:57personal agency over accumulating other
31:00types of costs like your living expenses
31:02and studying abroad sure there
31:04excellent summer programs but II caution
31:06students over the debt load and they may
31:08consider working over the summer there
31:10are also three centers of excellent
31:13global international externship for job
31:15creation abroad which exposes the
31:17students to other legal systems besides
31:20international human right there’s
31:21transactional business issues
31:23transitioning national immigration and a
31:25legal system they have successful summer
31:27programs in Guatemala an externship
31:30available in Africa we also learned
31:32collaboration is going on with other law
31:34schools in Russia and teaching new
31:36professionals by doing versus lecturing
31:39he also talked about the Mexican
31:40criminal justice system which is moving
31:42towards an adversarial system and the
31:45university of Pacific has also had
31:47mexican student come to the campus and
31:49vice versa he explains that this
31:51actually held wide in the students
31:53perspective by using joint programs you
31:55can begin to actually break out of the
31:57silo focus he also talks about lawyers
31:59they’re actually professional and not
32:01merely employee where they’re in a solo
32:03law practice for working for another law
32:05firm entrepreneurial program created and
32:08program developed in management helped
32:10build careers I professional he talks
32:12about clinic on how to set up a practice
32:14and enable the Dean to also be
32:16entrepreneurial talks about what it
32:18means to be a professional and also he
32:21talks about going back to teaching
32:22because he wants to get more deeply
32:25involved with the student he says that
32:26it’s hard to teach while also being Dean
32:28and his dream is being a professor on
32:31the front line one success jay says that
32:33most of his successes are unknown for
32:36example out of the blue a student
32:37reaches out and tells him that he
32:39remembers the contract class and how
32:42much he helped him further he stayed I
32:44don’t want to be in a country that
32:46doesn’t have lawyers the best business
32:48advice was when one of his clients said
32:50if I ask you a question don’t say it’s a
32:52business question I’m only looking for
32:54your advice and want you to use all your
32:57skill sets to answer my questions he now
33:00uses Twitter to engage differently with
33:02his student and those are just a few of
33:04the things that we learned today we’re
33:06really looking forward to our next show
33:08where we interview Bruno veerle a the
33:11founder of genius I look forward to our
33:14next show with all of you
33:16good friends in closing let me have for
33:19my listeners helpers please subscribe to
33:21my email list at Mitchell Chad road calm
33:24/ sign up you will get all the full
33:26interview transcripts my ebook 30 tools
33:29to start up where I talk about these
33:31free resources in show 00 sick you’ll
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33:39just by signing up at mitchell chad road
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33:51it’s your life go out with back at
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34:23iTunes until next time

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