The post Governance, Strategy Meets Growth, Sage Advice From Thomas L. Doorley, III Sage Partners, CoFounder, CEO, Chairman Show 039 first appeared on the site mitchellchadrow.com
0:00you’re listening to the listen up show
0:01startup entrepreneur podcast on Mitchell
0:03shadow your host today on shows your own
0:0639 today we’re here with Thomas orly co
0:09founder CEO and chairman of sage
0:12partners friend your business is your
0:18family you’re like let’s get started
0:21what are we going to talk to tom about
0:22today you worked for deloitte bought
0:25your company out and now you’ve got
0:26these 15 partners and you’re all over
0:28the world we work with Kimberly are just
0:31don’t think about starting up start
0:33thinking about scaling up to how does
0:35the startup prepares to scale up or how
0:37it is the startup in these even in these
0:39early days gets ready for the next big
0:41challenge which i call jumping the chasm
0:44which is to scale if you look at first
0:46virtually any industry sector over the
0:48years there are always tons of young
0:50fast-growing companies by the time the
0:53dust settles
0:54there are only a few of them and there
0:56are some reasons for that going to be
0:58the advantages of scale the advantages
1:00of of establishing brand all that sort
1:03of thing but you go from lots of
1:05fast-growing companies early on to a
1:07very small number of winners at the as
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1:56if you think about sage partners
1:57described generally that we are seasoned
1:59group of people and you bring good ideas
2:01into play and that idea of the bridging
2:04concept and then to more clearly define
2:06the two areas of business of the
2:08strategy and governance business on the
2:09fee-for-service side and adventure
2:11acceleration business
2:12and to do a split right at the beginning
2:14about that so that if you’re a young
2:16company say I’m you’re looking for
2:18advice on how to you know take this
2:21great idea that you have and and and
2:22find its appropriate markets into you
2:25know raise that next 10 million dollar
2:27section you know that then you turn left
2:29if you’re kimberly-clark you turn right
2:32skater sponsors our startup around for
2:34all your hosting needs head on over to
2:37Mitchell Chad row.com / hosting again
2:41that hostgator head on over to Mitchell
2:43Chad row.com flash hosting for all your
2:46web hosting need how you doing today tom
2:49i’m doing fine it’s snowy here in
2:52England how is it in the Philadelphia
2:54area you know what it’s not bad
2:56we just had a a light dusting of snow
2:59the other day
3:00western Pennsylvania ins consider
3:02themselves Midwesterners guys and
3:04Philadelphia as Eastern process where so
3:08we just go ahead as he is the breakpoint
3:10yes back in 2001 you started your
3:14current organization called sage
3:16partners can you tell me a little bit
3:19about each partner’s what what exactly
3:22is it that you do
3:23yeah we have what we refer to as a
3:25strategy and governance advisory firm
3:27and we have two groups of the of the
3:29client one we refer to as vetrix
3:32celebration and this kind of falls into
3:34the category that is the focus of your
3:36of your podcast in the sense that it is
3:40companies that have started off have a
3:43great product or to have some initial
3:46concepts and all that sort of thing
3:48customers and all but our role is to
3:51help them get to the next stage and one
3:53of the things that turns out to be as
3:56big a problem for young companies as
3:59starting off is how did you do what we
4:01call jump the chasm you go from being a
4:03day 0 idea company or stage one company
4:08i just described we’ve got a couple of
4:09customers of product or something like
4:11that to get to be where your sustainable
4:13where you have a process where you have
4:16an organization where you can in fact
4:18take a hit if if something comes by and
4:22that referred to as are better
4:23acceleration practice
4:24the other side of our practice is the
4:27more traditional strategy practice
4:29strategy consulting practice for
4:30strategy advisory practice but it’s had
4:33a strong element of governance since the
4:36early 2000s when the the governor’s will
4:40changed enormously with the likes of
4:43Tycho and enron and worldcom and all
4:45those sorts of things seem to repeated
4:47themselves more recently with arrows and
4:49others where people turned around and
4:51said wait a minute wasn’t the board
4:52supposed to be watching over those
4:54guides and and then sending up a flare
4:57if there was something wrong so our work
5:00which started in helping the c-suite
5:03deal with issues of strategy has evolved
5:05to wrap around the relationship between
5:08the board the oversight governance
5:10responsibilities and this c-suite the
5:14implementation the management of the
5:16strategy side you how do you market your
5:18services your solutions to and then tell
5:21me a little bit more about your team or
5:23primarily we do it via networking we
5:26obviously use our website as a way of
5:28the triggering things we send out notes
5:31but where we do ideas and develop ideas
5:34and send them out then around to focus
5:36on our network and we use the
5:37relationships we have it is really
5:39relationship marketing and one of your
5:41webcast or your podcast rather you
5:43talked about relationship marketing and
5:44we really very much believe in that you
5:46many many years ago I met an old
5:48consultant he was 16 is probably but in
5:52my view not sold anymore but he talked
5:55about how he had had a 40-year
5:57consulting career with only 10
5:59individuals as his client 10 individuals
6:01who went across 30 companies and in that
6:03sort of struck me as being the way in
6:04which you do things you do things with
6:07with with somebody you do the well and
6:09then that person refers you and you do
6:12it well with the next person that’s how
6:13it works so that’s sort of our primary
6:15our primary theme what we’re working on
6:17also his ways in which to reach out
6:19beyond our own network and that’s one of
6:21the reasons why i found the possibility
6:23of talking with you and doing your
6:24podcast to be it to be very helped away
6:26what we’ve talked to the entrepreneurs
6:28out various different distribution
6:30channel deliver you know your message
6:33out to the various community
6:35these and so this is just another means
6:38or another way for you to collaborate
6:40that correct yeah that’s right that’s
6:41right i personally into a lot of public
6:43speaking on conferences and those sorts
6:45of things most recently I worked with
6:47NACD national association of record and
6:50what they refer to as their masters
6:52class with the final piece of education
6:55they do with directions before they can
6:57become the hollow of the of the NACD and
6:59it was about this issue of strategy and
7:01governance so I do that how did you get
7:03involved with them because it here you
7:04know your professional director of the
7:06National Association of corporate
7:07directors tell me about that group and
7:09and how do you had a Jew sort of come to
7:11them and obviously you know you’ve
7:13reached out to various crew be able to
7:15do these speeches
7:16how do you sort of develop that type of
7:18business well because I’ve gone to some
7:20of their conferences and met various
7:21people and shared what it is they do
7:23they invited me so they reached out to
7:25me but the fact is I knew them and again
7:27it’s that sort of relationship side of
7:29our they National Association of
7:31corporate directors is probably the arm
7:34outside of the academic institutions are
7:36the best educational group or or group
7:39that teaches people how to in fact
7:41actually become directors which is not
7:43obvious sometimes the things you need to
7:45understand about the governance process
7:47and they do a very good job of that on
7:49and so recognizing that and recognizing
7:52the fact that i have advised boards and
7:54set on board and all that they’ve
7:55invited me to teaching this master’s
7:57class I’d probably not the guy you want
7:59to teach the basics to you know how it
8:01is you what you say hello to your
8:03corporate secretary but what type of
8:05companies have you actually sat on the
8:07board of some examples of the type of
8:10clients that you’ve helped doesn’t have
8:12to be names but whether the industry and
8:14and what you did to basically help the
8:16choice on on the under board side of it
8:18i’ve sat on and led i want to sort of
8:21each type of board you might you might
8:23pick up with a company in the UK who was
8:27in the secondary ticketing business
8:28called advanced ticketing systems help
8:31them as they work their way through some
8:33financial difficulties to eventually a
8:35successful merger with a ticket master
8:38or acquisition by ticketmaster so there
8:40was sort of a young company point of
8:42view where they eventually acquired yes
8:44they were by
8:45ticketmaster yes and you and you
8:46basically while you were on the board
8:48you you were involved in an obviously
8:50leading leading that charge
8:52yeah yeah then perhaps one of the more
8:54the longest-running example is a company
8:56called a strap read where r average
8:58which is a data analytics company that
9:00has been acquired most recently by am
9:03legendary analytics legendary films of
9:05their and their analytics division of
9:08the CEO map meralda work for me as a
9:10business analyst and as he was getting
9:12ready to go to business school he had an
9:14entrepreneurial bent so I helped him set
9:15up a company to do some data analytics
9:18or do I which he did for several years
9:20he went on to talk he used the work he
9:23was doing in analytics this goes back
9:25now to 1999 at the dartmouth stuck
9:27school for his mba and he won the atoms
9:30prize as the best entrepreneurial idea
9:32of that year graduate from talk that’s
9:35it up build the business into three
9:36segments i’m on this board I help him
9:39sort all of that out and then to be
9:41acquired by legendary films at the
9:43analytics division so that one went from
9:461999 to 2015 and and that was called
9:49scrap bridge correct 802 pastry yeah
9:52when that’s required does he does he
9:54stay on with the new company that’s
9:57acquired them or is it a cash deal and
10:00then he’s out or what happens if you get
10:02your involvement
10:03yeah it can actually very at the event
10:05ticketing systems james gray the CEO
10:08essentially sold out he stayed over for
10:10a transition period this is a company in
10:12the UK
10:13he then came back to the US to to be
10:16involved in other things so he
10:17essentially cashed out stay there for
10:20probably at 18 months or so in Matt’s
10:24case member oldest case his knowledge
10:27and and sort of understanding of this
10:30space the the analytics space the big
10:34data space was so important that he has
10:36stayed on and is likely to stand for as
10:39long as they think he has value which i
10:41think should be for quite a while
10:42because he is just a brilliant at
10:46understanding how data works how to
10:49inspire developers to develop these
10:52algorithms that
10:53bring life to to data that sort of thing
10:56so there it is on the young company side
10:59i served as a lead director of a company
11:02called natural which is a vitamins and
11:05minerals company out of California
11:06working with the the CEO obviously
11:10director and was there for three years
11:13when this may sound like a familiar
11:15story about it because necessarily need
11:18to be so where the company was acquired
11:20by an Indian company by name of platico
11:24which wanted to have a bigger position
11:27in in the US market based on the fact
11:30that they’re vitamins and minerals
11:31company out of out of Asia that was a
11:34very interesting thing because it being
11:36a public company you have the public
11:39company issues strap bridge and advanced
11:41ticketing systems were both private
11:43companies but these were public
11:45companies or this was a public company
11:47with the issues of compliance and
11:50reporting and all that sort of thing
11:52how do you have ID your partner’s you oh
11:55yes it’s a partner yes we do
11:57there are 15 of us and we are all to use
12:01the expression late in our careers so
12:05we’re all experience we all have 30 to
12:0740 years of experience we have all work
12:10in large companies and small companies
12:13we’ve all been leaders founders
12:16directors and so our special sauce in
12:19terms of whether working for a younger
12:20company or whether working for an
12:23established company is the bridge the
12:25gap between good ideas and how you
12:28actually have impact how you get things
12:30to be actually to actually work and and
12:33that is the that is the magic that we
12:35bring together the 15 of us have come
12:39across probably every issue you could
12:41possibly face dealt with them sometimes
12:44successful in sometimes have learned
12:46from things that didn’t work but are and
12:49I don’t use AAA purposely strong word
12:54brilliance is the fact that we’re able
12:57to take what seemed like good ideas
12:59figure out how they should actually work
13:02in practice and then put them in
13:05practice when we sit with a
13:06director you know chairman of the board
13:09and whatever we know we have said in his
13:11seat as well as we sat in the seat of
13:14the CEO that he’s working with now as
13:16far as governance goes and strategizing
13:18and helping sounds as if they’re more
13:20seasoned company so for example some of
13:23the younger companies that we talked to
13:25on our show are a little bit more
13:28startup in nature maybe a few years out
13:31their entrepreneurial and they’re trying
13:33to take it to the next level is that
13:35that’s a little too early for you to
13:37work with i mean obviously they have to
13:39have some type of wherewithal some type
13:41of finances in order for you to deal
13:42with them
13:43what would you be able to do to help
13:44startup that six to nine months out they
13:47have an idea they filed for their patent
13:50for example we just interviewed a fella
13:52with wearable technology for for asthma
13:54management there waiting to get the
13:56patent pending
13:57bye-bye filing for that how do you work
13:59with a company like that or don’t you
14:01why don’t we do it but and then so so
14:04that’s where we talk about this concept
14:06of jumping the chasm
14:08how did you go from being an idea
14:09company to be a company that has enough
14:13process and enough stability that they
14:15can actually have to give example right
14:16now we’re working with a young company
14:18that is based on three scientists one
14:22physicist and to md’s who have developed
14:26a new radiation oncology approach they
14:29have the idea they’ve gotten grant
14:30funding that has proved the fact that
14:33this technology works and small animals
14:35are what they need to do now is to jump
14:38to the next step so they raised through
14:40these grants you a couple million
14:41dollars which have been able to do their
14:43clinical research now they need to be
14:45able to take this idea and put it into a
14:48are closer to commercial application and
14:51that’s going to cost you know 10 to 15
14:53million dollars so they need to jump to
14:55that stage they need from us help
14:57building the pitch document we’re really
14:59good at that
15:00getting connections to the investment
15:03community folks who might be able to see
15:06this as an opportunity and and provide
15:08the 10 to 15 million dollars for portion
15:09of it and further help them find a
15:12management team but one of the the good
15:14launch management team one of the good
15:16things about this particular group
15:18is they know that they’re not the guise
15:19of the people who are going to be able
15:21to take this to a billion-dollar company
15:24because because they have no expertise
15:26their scientists there there there
15:27physicist their biologists are there
15:29md’s you know so that’s not the
15:31capability so in that case we’re helping
15:33them with all of those aspects when
15:37these companies are coming to you
15:38whatever the prices and whatever the
15:40structure is and we can talk about that
15:42a little bit hang you to not only put
15:45them in contact with this additional
15:47funding but obviously helped them build
15:49out I’m not only their board but their
15:51advisory team helped them flush out some
15:54of the ideas that they have what what
15:56else for example we’re already doing on
15:58no to earn in itself so their particular
16:01case they need a CEO who knows how to
16:07take a business from really good idea to
16:10commercial somebody who is on it works
16:13with them full time they need a a CFO of
16:16somebody who can make sure that if they
16:19do happen to get the 10 to 15 million
16:20dollars they know where it’s going and
16:22how it’s being spent and can report to
16:24their investors such as needed 17
16:26yeah there’s different business models
16:28when working with a company like this
16:30they’ve had some success in getting some
16:32grants and and raising some money that
16:34that way and they might have some of
16:36their own funds that they’re putting
16:37into the company early on but you know
16:40we talked to a lot of the entrepreneurs
16:41that not only listened but but also come
16:44on in terms of leveraging the resources
16:46so what are the different pricing
16:48structure so for example we just had on
16:51the other week boost linguistic where
16:53it’s a young it’s a young
16:55entrepreneurial team you know they’re in
16:57their early twenties and they’re
16:58building out this text editor they
17:00approach you and they say we don’t even
17:02have our first customer yet but here’s
17:04the technology we’ve already proven our
17:07we’ve already proven the case by going
17:09to let’s say the first 200 people and
17:11they’ve gotten good feedback they
17:13approach you and how do you engage with
17:15them in terms of what you’re gonna
17:17charge and and how they’re going to be
17:19able to sort of work with you to sort of
17:21get to that next level before they
17:23starve sure that’s always a good point
17:27so there’s sort of two
17:29chunks are two ways in which that that
17:32we work with them
17:33one is we actually do charge of the
17:35small fee and we charge movement of the
17:37fears is relatively minor because that
17:40indicates that there are serious enough
17:43about working with us to put some skin
17:46in the game so it’s like a buy it for me
17:49like a buy-in you know it it’s it’s just
17:53the kind of it’s a it’s a token to
17:55basically say you know we’re serious
17:58we know that you know that you need to
18:00be paid for your time and and that that
18:02c-could could range depending upon the
18:04the solutions of the services you know
18:08whatever that pre-arranged he’s going to
18:11be correct
18:12yeah yeah well as little as a thousand
18:14of two dollars a month the other two if
18:16it’s those companies little further down
18:18the line to five or ten thousand dollars
18:20a month
18:21yeah okay all ripped but our real win is
18:25to align our incentive with theirs and
18:28so therefore we take some sort of it
18:30carried interest and that can be
18:32described in any number of ways I could
18:34be described in terms of options that
18:36triggered various times and so the only
18:38way that we actually get full value for
18:41our time is if they’re successful and
18:45what it is they want to do a transaction
18:47you going public finding a strategic
18:51investor that sort of thing that the
18:54carried interest we have however it’s a
18:57described actually has value so one of
19:00my ma sage partners of points out that
19:03if we work with a company over a year or
19:06two whatever it is and nothing really
19:08happens then we have discounted our
19:10hourly rate enormously yes things go
19:14well that it works for us and works for
19:16them and so we have every incentive to
19:19try to figure out what could make them
19:23successful and really work hard to make
19:25them successful because then we’re
19:26successful as well so with 15 partners I
19:30mean realistically you can only be in so
19:33many places at once at any given point
19:35in time the 15 of you have a certain
19:38number of clients that that you’re
19:41working with i mean
19:42and you know can you can you share with
19:43us a little bit about you know what
19:46those numbers are and and you know where
19:49you’re looking to take the the
19:51partnership then it as far as that goes
19:53just so the 15 of us because we
19:55typically work in pairs of war or more
19:58sometimes if it’s on the advanced
20:00ticketing systems there are three of us
20:01because it was you know complicated and
20:04often all that sort of thing that we
20:06needed a different expertise that each
20:08of his head so i would say at any one
20:10time we could handle us in the range of
20:13fifteen to twenty companies are because
20:16we do have other work that we do which
20:18is the more traditional strategy and
20:20governance arena which is
20:22fee-for-service so all of our work isn’t
20:24for the young companies but the good
20:26chunk of it is in right now probably a
20:29in a range of half of our work is for
20:32these young companies and the other half
20:34is for the more traditional strategy and
20:36governance companies which they’re a
20:38fee-for-service basis those companies we
20:41can lay out a project developed a what
20:43it is we’re going to do in milestones
20:45and all that sort of thing and they pass
20:46a certain amount of money on a daily
20:49rate and do you see that that that mix
20:51changing from 50 50 to 60 40 or 7030 I
20:55mean do you want to take it you know you
20:57want to start to focus in in other areas
20:59and it’s so what were those areas be
21:01actually I i like the balance and I like
21:04the balance keeping it sort of romaine
21:06that 50 50 range now at any one time
21:09like a couple years ago we had some very
21:11large fee for service clients and so the
21:13balance was tipped more towards the the
21:16strategy and governance side for
21:18Rousseau typically who would be your fee
21:20for service on the government side I
21:21mean whether you can mention names or
21:24not but the types of companies and you
21:26know what you as an organization of the
21:29partnership could you know to to hit a
21:31home on you know expect to earn from
21:34from those companies to come to you and
21:35say you know generally speaking this is
21:38what you’re going to pay sure and again
21:41obviously it depends on the nature of
21:43the work and and all that sort of thing
21:45but our clients have included the likes
21:47of companies like a kimberly-clark
21:49hasbro the the toy company and in others
21:52like that and even those idiot
21:54is it in the same category a
21:57not-for-profit by name of health wise
21:59those are all companies of me that we
22:01can tell you who the names are so
22:03they’ve actually come to you and they’ve
22:06engaged you and a project that could
22:08last you know it could be 44 asset thing
22:10like for example governance or a
22:13specific project that might last a
22:15certain period of time correct yes
22:17that’s right yeah it has a focus
22:19something we’re trying to do for them to
22:22look for Hasbro for example what what
22:24what what typically would be the project
22:27there and for how long and and you know
22:29i guess i’m trying to get a sense for me
22:32to know about the about the health wise
22:34one because that’s sort of more even
22:36though it’s a not-for-profit don’t think
22:38of it that way because health wise as
22:41the company headquartered in boise idaho
22:44who provide information that if you go
22:48to go on to the doctor while website or
22:53web md any of those websites and a
22:55suggestion about well if you have the
22:58information get comes from health wise
23:00so they take information around your
23:05problems people have and all that sort
23:06of thing and find ways to package it so
23:09you can ask a question that can get an
23:11answer is not supposed to replace your
23:13conversation with your position was
23:15supposed to do is to make you prepared
23:17to have an intelligent conversation with
23:19the with your physician they had
23:25recently retired a terrific a CEO who
23:29talked about the fact that they have to
23:31find ways to be connected with people to
23:35generate to generate revenues in order
23:37to be able to accomplish the things that
23:39they want to do and so I did he
23:40describes them is without margin there’s
23:43no mission and so here’s a
23:44not-for-profit which in fact has a very
23:48commercial orientation so we help them
23:52and a predecessor company located in
23:54Boston called complicated name the
23:57informed medical decisions making
23:59foundation and the validation which was
24:02our original
24:04contact @ lost their go-to-market
24:08channel company called the health
24:11dialogue which kind of disappeared and
24:14so they needed to find a way to take the
24:16research and their research based
24:18organization on into the market to make
24:20sure they could generate revenue to stay
24:22alive talked about building
24:23relationships you had initially come to
24:26health wise you had come to this other
24:28organization that having other issues
24:30and what I guess how did you get the
24:32health wise er we first got to ended the
24:35foundation through the CEO who had a
24:39conversation with somebody that I’ve
24:41known for years who said look here’s my
24:42problem is he got a call tom dooley and
24:45and so so he did and that led to a
24:48diagnostic where we looked at how they
24:51were doing what their issues were
24:53figured out the problem was that this go
24:56to market the company they’ve been
24:58working with was not going to be able to
25:00help them in the future we then looked
25:03for and found that a candidate to merge
25:06with which was health-wise and through
25:09the course of that reset and advised
25:11their board on various issues they have
25:15what is your was just out of curiosity
25:17because obviously entrepreneurs want to
25:19know this whether it be on each side of
25:21of what you’re doing we’re talking about
25:23government what is the pricing structure
25:25there because we talked we talked about
25:27on the other side where they sort of
25:29initially give you a fee and and that’s
25:31a good faith type of thing that to then
25:33do more diagnostic to find out okay what
25:36are all the various issues and what’s
25:37the potential here for you guys but but
25:40on the other on the flip side of that
25:41the work that you were doing for them
25:43how do you pricing structure that sure
25:45what we want to to work with the company
25:49i like that which it has more
25:50wherewithal we have a day going rate
25:54which we discount on a not-for-profit
25:55side we discounted by a third because at
25:59this stage in our career we can afford
26:00to do some things that you know will
26:03have to pay as many of the light bills
26:04as we had when we were in our thirties
26:06you have here are some flexibility and
26:08so it’s our way of it’s a way of giving
26:09back
26:11I don’t think we need to talk about
26:12exactly daily rates but we are
26:16in the range of the the daily rates of a
26:19partner at a significant consulting firm
26:25corrected for the fact that their
26:28overhead rates are forty to fifty
26:29percent and r10 we keep our overhead
26:32rate low under ten percent of of total
26:36revenues not including other lawyers in
26:38the the accountants and you know the
26:42website and all that other sort of thing
26:44by the time and the insurance we carry
26:46four partners so by time to put all that
26:48together a traditional consulting firm
26:51is carrying a forty to fifty percent of
26:54revenues overheads and are so in terms
26:57of these projects i mean can you give me
26:59a broad range in terms of you know from
27:01from a very small project that might be
27:03xyv to a larger engagement that covers
27:07all these various things in terms of
27:09what types of fees that you could be
27:11talking about forever for you and I want
27:14to get on to another topic but for a
27:16young company that as I said whether
27:20it’s purely strategy or its governance
27:22or some combination of that for a very
27:25young company our face might be a
27:28thousand to a month and then to the
27:30extent that we worked with them over a
27:31period of two years we might get a
27:35equity stake in the range of five
27:38percent which vests over over the course
27:41of that time invest over a quarterly
27:43typically cycle something like that so
27:47he so that would be the disease for a
27:50company like that if we’re talking about
27:52a company that lets the public company
27:54in the mid cap or or larger range our
27:59project fees for let’s say something
28:02that might be a defined project for for
28:05two or three months worth of worth of
28:07work might be kind of in the range of 50
28:10or so per month then again it depends on
28:13the project depends on the company but
28:15we don’t expect those levels of of cash
28:18to come from young companies those would
28:22for example the this company i mentioned
28:25the secondary ticketing company
28:28we did have fees that were more like in
28:30the i think five or 6000 month range but
28:34we had them the same sort of carried
28:36interest that that i described so it is
28:41important that a young company pay
28:44something
28:45well you better tell you one company
28:47that we’re working with which is an
28:49established company but to go through
28:50some an establishment a young company
28:52but they’ve been in business for a
28:53couple years and they’re going through
28:56some difficulties right now with in fact
28:58deferred most of that most of that fee
29:00so we show up as a liability under
29:03balance sheet but it’s not a drawn their
29:06cash flow so it’s it’s a serious
29:09commitment in that case they know it
29:11they’re bored knows that they’re coming
29:12at how did you get to work with Kimberly
29:14Clark I mean obviously they’re there are
29:16fairly heavy hitter and so I think that
29:19people would want to appreciate you know
29:22in talking about building relationships
29:23I mean you know we we had the people on
29:26who who developed barefoot wine and and
29:30they sold it to EJ gallo and that that’s
29:32pretty kind of cool because you know i’m
29:35not a big wine drinker but that’s
29:37probably one of my favorite brands and
29:39and so having them on and learning about
29:42building those relationships and turning
29:45around and selling it is a pretty pretty
29:48awesome story so how did you how did you
29:51come to them the ball an amazon company
29:53sponsors are fastpitch my book club
29:56recommendations that get Mitchell Chad
29:58row.com / audible that’s new book great
30:01I Angela dock where it speaks to the
30:04important of persistent and passion vs
30:06town to see more of my recommendation
30:09and recommendation of our guests just go
30:11to Mitchell Chad row.com / audible it’s
30:14your number one resource for book
30:16reviews and recommendations productivity
30:19at linkedin and for under a hundred
30:21dollars he keeps a journal to keep track
30:23of all these ideas activity in DD
30:26original contact came to the fact that
30:28we worked with the company at the BF
30:31Goodrich and the CFO they’re moved over
30:34to become the CFO at kimberly-clark and
30:37when they did i send him some
30:38information some insight
30:40that we had by doing a little research
30:42on some of kimberly-clark issues he said
30:45hey that sounds I personal he recognized
30:48he knew the work we had done back at
30:50goodrich and felt good about that and so
30:52he said come talk to us about some of
30:54those issues you raised i did that led
30:56to conversations with the CEO and and
30:59led to led to the work so that was one
31:01where it was a network relationship
31:05butBut almost once removed
31:07hey it’s pulling a a a senior manager or
31:10following a member of the c-suite from
31:13one company to another company and and
31:16we’ve tended to do that fairly success
31:18it’s okay to think big
31:19even if you’re in the startup a to a lot
31:22of entrepreneurs that should be the goal
31:24I mean you know you’re building this
31:25thing up you can only meet so many
31:27one-on-one clients and we take that take
31:30your traditional consultant he’s just
31:31going to be one-on-one maybe he can you
31:34know consult with whatever but the whole
31:36idea is by scaling it up you could
31:38eventually turn around and sell the
31:40thing because thrown the thing to a
31:42certain level where you know you can
31:44sort of never get out of the way and in
31:46terms of some of these early stages so
31:49when we found my first company which is
31:51a strategy consulting firm called
31:52Braxton associates and this goes back
31:54into the seventies so we set the partner
31:57and I set up this setup this company and
32:00we had some first-principles one first
32:02principle was that we looked around and
32:03saw that there were tons of companies
32:05tons of them in our space there were two
32:08three four five people and so we said we
32:11want to at least get 225 and then we get
32:13225 we’ll see how big we can be so we
32:16had a an objective that said we didn’t
32:18want to just be two or three people
32:20the second thing we said is we had to
32:21have a particular product or service
32:24area that differentiate us from the guys
32:26in the in the marketplace and then the
32:29third thing we said if we’re going to be
32:30of any importance and all we needed to
32:33be global so we couldn’t just be based
32:35in Boston so we had some principles like
32:38that where are the even though we didn’t
32:40have our first customer first client as
32:42we call them at the time which are
32:44really important since it simultaneously
32:46about the same time that that we set up
32:49our company Braxton a company called
32:51berwick associates with set
32:53and they were a group of four people and
32:56they could never agree and and didn’t
32:58early on about the first thing about
33:01scale about focus and about and about
33:04going over the g at geography spread so
33:07they started for people
33:09the maximum they got to about eight and
33:11they finally dissolved into two groups
33:13of two and and part of it was they had
33:16two younger guys who did want to grow
33:18larger to order guys who wanted to coast
33:20home and it was it just couldn’t work so
33:23one of the elements of advice I give to
33:26young companies ok so you’re trying to
33:28figure out where you actually have a
33:30product that somebody’s going to buy and
33:31that’s really important but you have to
33:33look beyond that because at some point
33:35if you find somebody wants to buy your
33:38product you’re going to have to start
33:40dealing with how you go from being an
33:42idea to a product to a company or to an
33:45enterprise and so there’s sort of the
33:48area in which a lot of companies a lot
33:51of companies have have trouble now it’s
33:54possible also that you your scope or or
33:58your point of view of the world is as
34:00long as I can make some money by selling
34:01something that that it looks like pretty
34:03good technology to somebody else that
34:05I’m okay and my favorite book right now
34:08and it’s not exactly a business book but
34:10it’s almost is a book called Brett gri t
34:13by by a psychologist my name of Angela
34:16Duckworth and it talks about the balance
34:20between talent
34:22yeah you did you hire talent would you
34:24have hire somebody who can tough it out
34:26and the address has to be sort of a
34:28minimal amount of talent but what you
34:30get into sort of a minimum regional
34:32amount of talent zone it’s all about
34:34perseverance it’s all about grip and
34:36it’s a terrific example of how you have
34:40to find people who can fight through
34:41difficulties because hell we all have
34:43will have we all have difficulties one
34:47of the things i can talk about in terms
34:48of advice to the entrepreneur is
34:50something that back in my first round at
34:53the Braxtons Associates we actually
34:55tripped over and did not do it was a
34:57mistake it turned out not to be failed
34:59but it was a mistake and that is that a
35:02Harvard Business School professor who
35:04was part of the team the road originally
35:06the
35:06a book called in search of excellence
35:08that Mackenzie did Tony 80 said you know
35:11what you want to do is you have to form
35:13a working group of people who are in
35:16companies like yours in the Boston area
35:19so you can have breakfast with make it
35:21easy
35:22who you can talk to about the problems
35:25you’re having but they’re not your
35:26competitors so that would be sort of a
35:28younger coming from a young law firm a
35:30young advertising agency all that sort
35:32of thing and and that would have been a
35:35brilliant idea we actually didn’t do
35:36that so that was in the state we
35:38overcame it by binder on hiring a fellow
35:43who worked with us full-time from the
35:45procter & gamble who is a senior
35:47management of person who had retired
35:50looking for something to do and he could
35:52help us think through those things but
35:54isn’t that he’s masterminds that you’ll
35:56hear people get involved with whether it
35:58be letip or they refer to them as
36:00masterminds where they they have a
36:03certain number of people in their quote
36:05on quote mastermind and it can be the
36:08only problem I have the sum of those is
36:09the group is to get the group’s get too
36:12large and so you don’t have enough time
36:14to really dig in in-depth into into your
36:17issues and sometimes I get too far field
36:21so in our case and what I what I would
36:24feel for a for a young company will be
36:26outside of hiring us of course which
36:28would be the best example would be to
36:31have it be a relatively small group with
36:34organizations who are facing the same
36:37sort of issues that you’re facing but
36:39but are not your competitors right and
36:41so when you’re working with
36:42entrepreneurs obviously you have various
36:45issues from intellectual property
36:46digital ad i mean our you’re obviously
36:48you have relationships with other people
36:50are you you say to the entrepreneur
36:53you’re paying us this fee to bring in
36:54all these other various people that you
36:56then need to sort of bring in and you’re
36:59paying them or saying like myself you
37:02know i’m coming to you to basically help
37:03me you know help me with the patent help
37:05me with what have you and I’m gonna pay
37:07you and then you’re going to your intern
37:09then going to pay all the various other
37:11professionals that you have to bring in
37:13to basically execute on whatever needs
37:16to be done
37:16generally we do most of the work
37:17yourself with some exceptions for
37:20sample if you need to write a specific
37:23legal document that can go to the FDA or
37:26something like that
37:28war do you need to write it in a way in
37:31which the Patent Office will prove it
37:33that special expertise so we would not
37:36would not do that we would bring
37:38somebody in to do it for them when we go
37:40out and hit help them find and hire a
37:44management team that’s on us then once
37:47they get the management team paintings
37:48on them because they become full-time
37:50members of you mentioned 15 partner open
37:53so the 15 of yet but you’re all from
37:55various different industries computer
37:57graphic locations yes from financial
37:59services to healthcare and you’re
38:01located in different parts of the United
38:03States or even outside the US correct
38:05you mentioned working with companies
38:06accessory folks in the community but
38:08might be attorneys if you’re doing some
38:10of the legal work is that correct some
38:12of your CPA says some are doing the
38:14accounting work obviously thats what
38:16you’re doing with the government you
38:17give and receive for example is a is an
38:19attorney yes our wrap-up around is
38:21sponsored by snap for all your graphic
38:24design needs head on over to Mitchell
38:26Chad row.com / napa that’s sna PPA not
38:32only about business but it’s about
38:33family and life so I mean you know it’s
38:35about it’s about telling the
38:37entrepreneurs that you know things need
38:39to be balanced
38:40you know you can’t just focus all on one
38:42without you know affecting the other
38:43areas so is there any other background
38:46information that you can impart that you
38:48think would be helpful to an audience to
38:51get to learn about you a little bit more
38:53w here’s something i can tell you so in
38:55in the december i was given an honor by
38:59the New England region of Deloitte as
39:03they have a Hall of Fame as they call it
39:06for the retired partners and i was
39:08honored in that Hall of Fame as somebody
39:10who has been above all great for client
39:13service you know I’m a good person in
39:15the ferment two are things like that and
39:18they invited me and two other folks who
39:21are also honored in the different areas
39:24of to speak to the assembled group of
39:27two thousand folks who are the other
39:30folks are from the from the doing
39:31practice and what I talked
39:33them was how it is it’s possible given a
39:36because they’re all as you might imagine
39:38much younger than me
39:39our holidays you can if you if you want
39:42to achieve a balanced life and i pointed
39:45out that particularly in my early days
39:47that I used to laugh about a 40 hour
39:50week and i would say it’s noon on
39:53Wednesday and I’ve got my 40 hours with
39:5440 hours in already and I was but is
39:57putting in 70 80 or so hours and was and
40:01I was traveling yeah and then this was
40:03before the days of cell phones and all
40:05that sort of thing
40:06sure contacting your family was I was
40:09difficult so we did some things
40:11my wife and i would first thing i did
40:13when i got up she and i would talk on
40:15the phone from wherever it was last
40:17thing before after she put the kids to
40:19bed before she went to bed we were
40:21talking about what happened that day and
40:23what the things were so I worked hard at
40:25making a contact the first day our first
40:28child or first son had his parent
40:30teacher meeting it was on wednesday at
40:34two o’clock in the afternoon and I
40:35didn’t make it is a cheese Wednesday two
40:37o’clock in the afternoon is terrible so
40:39we went to the school we said listen is
40:41there any way we could do these at the
40:43beginning of the day on Monday or at the
40:46end of the day on Friday days and I’d be
40:48a witness said sure and I made the next
40:5021 of them in a row so I want out of 22
40:53but my point two people was that if you
40:57want to do it you can do it
41:00I’m an exerciser and I’ve learned to get
41:02up at five o’clock in the morning to get
41:03my exercise in when i was home so I
41:06could have breakfast with the kids and
41:07even drive them to school so it was
41:09about how no matter what if you want to
41:13you can achieve balance now it’s not the
41:17same amount of time with my kids as I
41:20would have spent if i was living in you
41:22know if i had a job at home and work a
41:2440-hour week or whatever but i would
41:26have been as good a person for them
41:27because because that wasn’t who I was I
41:30needed to be doing things I needed to be
41:33building a company and
41:34and working with the kimberly-clark so
41:37the world whomever doing a lot of the
41:39same type of work is deployed so I mean
41:41I was a part of is a partner to life
41:43before I retired and then for the first
41:45four years that we set up sage how many
41:48years were you at deloitte as a delayed
41:5015 years because my first company
41:53Braxton associates i sold merged into
41:57deloitte the back in the back in the
41:59eighties while state i stayed to build a
42:01practicing and we’re a hundred people
42:03when i joined when i joined the what has
42:06become the strategy and operations
42:08practice of Deloitte on and it was
42:10almost a thousand people when i left we
42:13went from three offices one in the US
42:15and to overseas 221 offices three
42:18takeaways that time provided us great
42:21focus and vision
42:23how’s everybody going to stay in contact
42:24with Tom Dooley that’s easy
42:27his website is sage partners dotnet
42:31email prom at T doorly that’s T d 0 r le
42:38y at sage partners dotnet or connect
42:43with him on his favorite productivity at
42:47at LinkedIn www.linkedin.com / in / tom
42:54doorly I think we will
42:56Thank You Mitchell I enjoyed it thanks
42:57again tom take care be good now but in
43:00closing let me ask for my listeners help
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The post Governance, Strategy Meets Growth, Sage Advice From Thomas L. Doorley, III Sage Partners, CoFounder, CEO, Chairman Show 039 first appeared on the site mitchellchadrow.com