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Product Designer, Chris Lin, Flip Wallet, Founder Show 017
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1:00now let’s listen up to Chris land
1:02he’s not just the founder but he’s also
1:04the product designer a flip wallet he
1:07also has a website called alabaster which is a design firm and
1:12he says he’s a mechanical engineer by
1:15education but an entrepreneur at heart
1:17and I actually really liked that very
1:18much Chris he’s a recent graduate from
1:21the University of Delaware and a winner
1:23of pitch competition over there now he’s
1:26actually in the process of launching his
1:28first of what should actually be several
1:30launches of his designs and it’s very
1:32exciting to welcome you here to the show
1:34today Chris oh yeah thank you it’s
1:36really exciting to be here tell us a
1:38little bit about your journey coming in
1:39on or on graduation to start up to where
1:42you’re at now we’re growing up I always
1:44um did a lot of origami and paper crafts
1:46and they started designing a lot of
1:48products well it was actually the first
1:50one and I designed it like using origami
1:52and paper process kind of might spin on
1:54a lot of different designs because they
1:56can fit a lot of functions and movement
1:58into a small space but um leading into
2:00that I joint in Middle School in high
2:02school I started joining a lot of
2:03robotics teams because I was I was
2:05interested in product design I didn’t
2:07know how else to go about that except
2:08mechanical engineering and in college I
2:10majored in mechanical engineering
2:12but on in this entire time I was pretty
2:14focused on my education I was thinking I
2:16wanted to be a normal mechanical
2:17engineer when I started looking at jobs
2:19I realized that maybe that’s not exactly
2:22what I wanted to do I was actually still
2:24pretty okay with going into that field
2:26normally but on my final semester I
2:30actually took a course last year in
2:33called intro to entrepreneurship with
2:35Mona Parikh as my professor and Ralph
2:37Lefkowitz as my TA and those of the more
2:40huge influences on me they actually I
2:43showed in my wallet and they said I
2:44should enter a small pitch competition
2:46with it and I actually did very I did
2:49very well that was the first dish
2:51competition that I won that you
2:52mentioned earlier and after winning it
2:54one of the judges pick told me that
2:57after I followed up with her she told me
2:58that she wanted to mentor me directly so
3:00I think what really kicked off my
3:03interest in entrepreneurship besides
3:05just the fact that I actually just
3:07really liked my products and I think
3:09that they’re better than a lot of other
3:10ones I guess any product designer can
3:12say that is the fact that everybody in
3:15the room told me that when they saw the
3:17wallet they were instantly interested
3:19and I realized that I had to design that
3:21not only could sell would be there was
3:24like a path I could follow with it so I
3:27started getting really interested and I
3:29looked more into it and I got into a hen
3:31hatch actually so I got into a
3:33larger-scale pitch competition and that
3:34really started to give me some
3:36validation I started to find a way to
3:39convince my parents which was important
3:41that this was a valid career path by
3:43telling them that vulvar standard
3:45mechanical engineer salary you’re in the
3:48first year is around $60,000 so I want
3:50to make that much of my first year and
3:52if not I’ll get a regular job and kind
3:54of do this on the side so right now and
3:56in that first year I’m trying to prove
3:57to myself and a little bit to my parents
3:59that this is a valid career path this is
4:01something that I want to do and it’s not
4:03just that dream is something I can make
4:05into reality – our startup around for
4:07all your hosting needs head on over to
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4:15for all your web hosting need who do you
4:18use to host this website so after this
4:20pitch competition and everybody’s coming
4:23up to you
4:23this person’s coming up to you and
4:25saying gee I really want to mentor you I
4:27really think that that something’s here
4:30is that when you had this epiphany that
4:32hey gee you know I’m discovering that
4:35I’m really an entrepreneur I really want
4:37to sort of go for this and I just don’t
4:39want to sort of have a nine-to-five type
4:41of career a job where I’m actually
4:43working for someone else I honestly
4:47think that my entire life I’ve felt that
4:50way but I’m the kind of person that kind
4:53of takes things as they come so I while
4:56I was thinking that I wanted to do
4:58something like entrepreneurship I was
5:00okay with the past I was already on and
5:02it was easier because my parents
5:04expected it to the pitch competition was
5:07the first time that I felt like I had a
5:09valid reason to pursue it because I know
5:12there’s a lot of people that have this
5:15bad they have this bad image of what an
5:18entrepreneur is or someone with their
5:19head in the clouds and I don’t know if I
5:22entirely had that perspective before but
5:24there was a little bit of that in me
5:25once I started getting exposed to the
5:27Entrepreneurship Club and seeing people
5:28for you know doing what they really do I
5:30started to think hey this is a real
5:32career path and when I found out that I
5:34wasn’t that bad and I thought maybe I
5:36should try and get better work really
5:37hard at making this into something that
5:39I can continue to do and that’s when you
5:42said aha
5:43I think I’m on to something which is
5:45which is really interesting because like
5:47you said you you kind of take things as
5:49they come but after getting some of this
5:52feedback it finally dawned on you that
5:54maybe this other path this other way of
5:56going down is is probably the better way
5:59of going what would you say is one of
6:02the things that actually contributes to
6:04your success I mean you’re you’re a
6:06young guy you just recently graduated
6:08you know you have a mechanical
6:11engineering background you’re designing
6:13this this flip wallet and it’s it’s
6:15coming out soon and we’ll get into that
6:17in a little bit but but what what what
6:19up until today would you say is one of
6:22the the main things that’s actually
6:24contributing to your success um well
6:27actually I thought you might ask this
6:29question so I thought about the answer a
6:30little dick if I was in the familiar of
6:31a podcast and actually I I think that as
6:36a loan one of the biggest things for me
6:38is that I’m a loan founder I’m doing
6:39those of this myself a lot of people
6:41tell me sometimes that I’m a one-man
6:42show but it’s actually really far from
6:44that and I think there’s this mindset
6:46that people have got a lone founder is
6:47supposed to be someone that can do
6:48everything but I think at the end of the
6:50day alone there’s a better mind that you
6:52can have when you go into something like
6:54this by yourself and that’s that you
6:56want to be somebody that you have to
6:57believe that you’re capable with
6:59learning everything so every time you
7:01don’t know something you immediately ask
7:03somebody else to do it maybe you can’t
7:05get them equity in your company but um
7:07you have to believe that you’re able to
7:09pick up whatever you need to be able to
7:11pick up and I think a mechanical
7:13engineering degree kind of contributed
7:15to that um some people say that a
7:17mechanical engineering degree is kind of
7:19the liberal arts loves mechanical
7:20engineering most engineering in general
7:22and that it kind of teaches you to learn
7:25faster so that’s definitely helped me a
7:27lot because I didn’t have any business
7:29background going into this so I’m just
7:30kind of trying to learn as much as I can
7:32and that’s really the way that I’m doing
7:34this just every moment I’m trying to
7:36learn something that I don’t know try to
7:38play with it
7:39it’s actually how to learn how to learn
7:41it it’s kind of like a it’s a way of
7:43thinking that you know that you’re going
7:46to eventually come to an answer it’s
7:49really being extremely positive yet
7:51being realistic and knowing that you
7:56know that that you’re curious and that
7:57you ask questions what has been some of
8:00your challenges though up to date I mean
8:02you know we’ve talked a little bit about
8:04you know this mindset that you have you
8:07know as a winner to try to you know
8:09contribute to your success but but what
8:12have been some of your challenges I
8:13think that’s helpful for other people to
8:15hear as well because there’s other
8:17people out there that want to do exactly
8:19what you’re doing and for one reason or
8:21another haven’t been able to sort of you
8:23know say I’m going to go for it so so
8:26tell us a little bit about some of those
8:28challenges I think my greatest
8:30challenges are in the same line of thing
8:33actually I think it’s really frustrating
8:35a lot of the times especially with
8:37financials the entire business side of
8:39it really and like the main reason that
8:41I credit myself as a founder and product
8:43designer as opposed to a founder and CEO
8:45like some people might is be
8:46I’m simply not confident in my grasp of
8:48business and financials and I’ve gotten
8:51a lot of help in that direction um for
8:53sure my greatest and all of my mentoring
8:56grass left with uh something a lot with
8:58financials not a freak my natural season
9:01fresh track all of them have helped me a
9:03lot come with financials and everybody
9:05into BET’s helped me a lot with that
9:06kind of thing too um I asked all I asked
9:10the previous ten hatch winner when I was
9:11in that for his financials and I did a
9:14lot of googling a lot of research but
9:16that’s definitely the most challenging
9:18part is that you you can’t really be
9:21able to do everything and financials are
9:23definitely something that I can’t really
9:24do but I I thought I got it done it just
9:27took a little longer a little Hardison I
9:29I would have liked shows also sponsored
9:31by Bank smarter calm for the
9:33alternatives to big banks in the
9:35traditional way of banking just head on
9:37over to Bank smarter calm you know it’s
9:40interesting in our show euro one by when
9:42we talked a little bit about
9:43crowdfunding and crowdsourcing you know
9:45when it comes to crowdsourcing it’s very
9:47important to not only know what your
9:49strengths are but what your weaknesses
9:51are as well
9:52and a lot of times when we speak to
9:54partners we talk to them about you know
9:56someone coming into a partnership and I
9:58know that you don’t have a partnership
10:00but for those people who do have
10:01partnerships it’s you know one person
10:04coming with their strengths and another
10:06person coming with other type of
10:08strengths because you don’t want to have
10:10two people that are obviously strong in
10:13the same area and it’s also knowing when
10:15to delegate certain things that maybe is
10:17not your your bailiwick so arm I think
10:22it’s I think it’s terrific that that you
10:24actually pulled aside and I think it’s a
10:26very good value bomb out there for
10:28everybody listening that you actually
10:30pulled the the winner from the prior
10:32competition and basically started asking
10:35them okay now what did you do in this
10:37particular situation because it sounds
10:40as if you need to partner with or
10:43delegate or crowdsource or bring in
10:46other people that have the business side
10:48of it but you’re aware of that correct
10:50so so that’s that’s that’s one of your
10:52strengths I would think you’ve taken a
10:54weakness and you’ve actually made it
10:55into a strength oh thank you and yeah I
10:58think that’s
10:59but I there’s a I guess I can put it a
11:02different what I meant what I said
11:04before about um kind of not really being
11:06a loan factor I think for a loan sounder
11:08your partner is actually just the
11:10community around you you just have to
11:12find everybody that knows anything and
11:14is willing to help you and kind of use
11:15as much of them as you can because I
11:17don’t think it’s actually possible but
11:18the alone founder and practice you can I
11:21am one in a but I’m certainly not one in
11:23practice yeah and I think that’s that
11:26that was the interesting concept behind
11:28the crowdfunding on the financial side
11:31and the crowdsourcing on the on the
11:34delegating you know various tasks that
11:36need to be done that that maybe either
11:38you don’t have the wherewithal or you
11:40need to sort of you know gain some
11:43additional experience and talk to us a
11:46little bit about your product I mean you
11:48know I know that you know I went to the
11:50website I was very impressed with it by
11:52the way and I’m going to get into a
11:53little bit of that with you in just a
11:55little bit but but talk to us about this
11:57first product that that currently you’re
12:00testing that the flip wallet and tell us
12:03why you decided to actually create not
12:06only the technology but a whole new
12:08wallet as opposed to just taking the
12:11technology and putting it in let’s say
12:13an existing wallet okay so I think that
12:19with this product design it’s important
12:22for every part of the pallet to be
12:23specific for that product when you copy
12:26when you take elements of other products
12:28and kind of steal them exactly without
12:31changing them at least to fit your needs
12:33more it isn’t it’s never perfect it’s
12:37always got some failings and I design
12:39flip um originally because my first
12:43wallet on the middle school started
12:44break by under high school what I can do
12:46if I made a new one and it just kind of
12:48evolved over time as I found your
12:50materials and got really curious about
12:52my own design and started making it
12:54better um the way that I’m designing it
12:57now is with this mindset that it’s going
12:58to be the best wallet that’s ever made
13:00from an objective standpoint so I think
13:02the failings that a lot of other wallets
13:04have is that they’re really targeted
13:07towards a specific group of people so
13:08you’ll have like well it’s for mountain
13:10climbers and well it’s for business
13:11people and while is for people that
13:13live in the city but you never have one
13:14that really just does everything that
13:16you need and flip was designed kind of
13:18with that concept I went back to the
13:20beginning and said what does a good
13:21wallet actually need to have and I came
13:24to the conclusion that a good wall it
13:25should be strong and durable and Shean
13:28and easy to use and very pretty and easy
13:31to personalize and I think most wallets
13:34have all of those except ease of use
13:36none of them are designed specifically
13:38to be easy to use they’re just designed
13:40to do one function well and then kind of
13:43put all the rest of it around I think
13:46the only wallet that’s been designed
13:49extremely efficiently as far as function
13:52function per space so that’s kind of the
13:58methodology behind it no no I understand
14:01so when I listen to you I not only hear
14:04a confidence but it’s almost like a
14:06quiet confidence and what I mean by that
14:09is is that you know there’s a sometimes
14:11there’s a thin line between arrogance
14:13and confidence and cockiness and what I
14:16find very refreshing and listening to
14:19you and and actually reading some of the
14:21things that you’ve written and what
14:23we’ll talk about that a little bit as
14:24well um I I hear this confidence and and
14:28and I I think you know this story that
14:31you have is going to resonate with with
14:34a lot of people what have you done as
14:37far as you know again I know that you’re
14:40in the process of testing right now so
14:42so tell us a little bit about how you
14:44found your testers and have you fought
14:47down the road in terms of how you’re
14:48going to sort of get some of those
14:51customers those consumers you’re going
14:53to generate those sales take take us
14:56through that a little bit that’s been an
14:58interesting path because when I first
15:00started reaching for customers it was
15:02because uh in the hennas competition I
15:04wanted to be able to have to show some
15:07traction to show that I had people that
15:10were actually interested so what I did
15:12was I made a reddit post I made a bunch
15:14of Facebook posts I made a bunch of
15:16Twitter tweet I tweeted a bunch I don’t
15:19have a snapchat but I’ll get around to
15:20that eventually okay actually caught on
15:22was one one specific reddit post that um
15:26gosh got a lot of views I don’t remember
15:28how many I got like around like 80 likes
15:30that’s all but I in the first three days
15:34that that reddit post was up I had 70
15:36beta testers signed up and I guess
15:38that’s I guess that’s the important
15:41with my for finding custer’s was having
15:44a place for them to sign up on my
15:45website there’s always a call to action
15:47on the bottom and I hear a lot of people
15:49saying things like that like you should
15:50always have a call to action but I never
15:52really understood it until I got all
15:54those beta testers really fast because
15:56everybody that saw the website and
15:58became interested immediately had a
15:59place to kind of bed that interest and I
16:02got 70 beta testers I decided I had to
16:05cap it at 100 and over the next few
16:07weeks I got far more than that so what I
16:10did to make sure that I had good data
16:12testers was a few weeks later I checked
16:14back with him and made sure and like had
16:16them all reply and the first hundred
16:18people reply after that were the beta
16:19testers that I’m working with now and
16:21they’re all really amazing actually
16:24they’re all telling their friends about
16:25it they’re all super excited they’re
16:27actually contributing an interesting way
16:29some of them are offering the
16:30interruptions to the startup community
16:32in California some of them has their own
16:34startups and are offering the advice
16:36with taxes and financials again as well
16:40as some manufacturers but it’s been a
16:42really amazing ride I actually SAR
16:44shipped out on the last of the wallets
16:46this morning so it’s been so that’s
16:49getting started next week but very
16:54moving very it’s a very exciting time
16:55for you and we’re we’re really really
16:57excited for you you know it you know
17:00there’s so many different social
17:01platforms it almost seems like you’re
17:04almost doing your own in a sense a be
17:07testing in terms of which social
17:09platform was going to leverage you you
17:12know basically the most likes or the
17:14most views to sort of say you know maybe
17:17this is the distribution channel I can
17:19go down to find not only testers but I
17:23guess you know you know you’ve started
17:25to think about okay now how am I going
17:27to get customers at some point in time
17:29in the future what’s going to be my
17:31price target and and maybe talk to us a
17:34little bit about you know pricing and
17:35and and what that’s going to entail in
17:38terms of you know out
17:39we’re seeing that have you have you
17:41given that some thought and can you
17:43really talk to us a little bit about
17:44that as well yeah I’m sensitive to any
17:47number is about pricing right now simply
17:49because I haven’t will secure to
17:51manufacture I haven’t locked one down so
17:53I don’t know how much that’s going to
17:55cost per wallet I know the materials
17:57cost but I think it’s important to
17:58consider everything I’m talking to FedEx
18:00right now about working out some bulk
18:03shipping rates so all of those things I
18:04think are important with hardware
18:05startups it’s a little different with
18:07software startups I know I think at the
18:09end of the day and this is sort of
18:11obvious so I apologize you’re saying
18:13something like this but like this is
18:14what I think at the end of a it just
18:15comes down to like how much you’re going
18:17to spend and how much you want to make I
18:19know there’s you don’t really have to
18:21set a price point where you have like a
18:23hundred hundred fifty percent profit
18:25margin actually I’ve recently heard that
18:27those are pretty impossible but I think
18:30it’s just about how much you you want to
18:32make like how much growth you want to
18:34achieve how big of a scale that you how
18:37big of a scale you envision yourself
18:38achieving in the future if you really
18:40want just one product and you want to
18:42have something that kind of chunks along
18:44by itself you don’t have to set your
18:46profit margin not high but if you really
18:48want to get a lot and develop a lot more
18:51a lot of more products afterwards you
18:53have to get a pretty great profit margin
18:54to start be able to being able to found
18:56yourself I think that’s something that
18:58I’ve learned a lot about along the way
19:00because I wasn’t sure how to set my
19:01profit margins the beginning and what I
19:03was trying to look for like a specific
19:05answer and I’ve learned that it’s really
19:07just about your personal goals and you
19:09mentioned before I have multiple designs
19:11on my salon page so I do want to be able
19:14to launch on the book about also trusts
19:16martyr calm for all your personal
19:18relationship good content and free
19:20premium resources head on over to trust
19:23smarter calm focusing on the flip wallet
19:26because obviously that’s the one that
19:27you’re testing currently right now and
19:29you’re in the process of obviously
19:31looking to see who’s going to help you
19:33manufacture it without going into a lot
19:35of detail I know you can’t share you
19:37know the pricing and the costs and
19:38things of that nature but you know
19:40obviously it sounds as if you’re you’re
19:43also going to be looking internationally
19:45for sale so have you considered then you
19:50know having this manufactured outside
19:52the United States
19:53and if so I know you mentioned a little
19:56bit about the shipping arm but maybe
19:59maybe talk to us a little bit about that
20:01because I know that that that can
20:02potentially be be an issue yeah
20:06actually my my mentor the first thing
20:08she brought up was manufacturing outside
20:10of the country when we first started
20:12talking and I was under the impression
20:14that I was going to put that on hold
20:16actually and how I presented that I
20:18wanted to stay within the countries were
20:20now and I’d move international in the
20:22future when I was able to handle
20:23different manufacturing routes and
20:25absolutely clean manufacturing and also
20:27just shipping in general if shipping
20:29does get really really expensive as I’ve
20:32been learning the last few weeks but um
20:35when I started picking up beta-testers I
20:38when I when I started asking for their
20:39addresses cuz I initially didn’t ask
20:42them for an address or even whether they
20:44were international or not if I just I
20:45don’t I don’t think I expected that much
20:48of a response around the world when I
20:51write ask I found that I had 16
20:53international beta testers signed up and
20:55I just didn’t know that they were
20:56international until recently I have to
20:58when New Zealand and two in Japan
21:00they’re all over the place and it was
21:03surprising but I had I already told them
21:05they were betas houses when I dish it in
21:07the wallet and I started to think more
21:08about how can I keep this international
21:11um how can I keep this international
21:14response building while staying staying
21:18lean because I just don’t have that much
21:19um funding to work with at the beginning
21:22sure well you know it’s interesting one
21:25of the one of the great things about the
21:26program is that there are other people
21:28who are just about to sort of get into
21:31the the steps that you’re into and when
21:35they hear your story the idea is that to
21:38be able to inspire others to come up
21:41with other ideas as well and we of
21:43course offer a lot of free premium
21:45resources right here and hopefully other
21:47people listen up and and hear some of
21:49the advice that we can provide I know
21:51that internationally by for example
21:54getting a contract up front with like a
21:57DHL for example on international
22:00shipments is probably going to be one of
22:02the better things that you do you know
22:06terms of signing that contract earlier
22:08than later and believe it or not for for
22:12manufacturing products outside the
22:14United States for example outsourcing
22:17your work there
22:18there are virtual assistants that you
22:20can set up outside the United States
22:22that not only can get you accustomed to
22:24the culture but of course you know
22:27you’ll you’ll have someone who can speak
22:28the language from here over there but
22:30there’s texting which obviously helps in
22:32any of the loss of translation now of
22:36course you probably would have to visit
22:37over there but just just just an idea or
22:40two that I did I throw out as you’re
22:43sort of coming into that next step in
22:46the phase as far as then your website
22:49development your logo design you know
22:53the prototypes for your patents what
22:55type of resources have been helping you
22:58maybe you could talk to us a little bit
22:59about that um it’s this was actually one
23:03of the I think the most important skills
23:06that I had filling into this is that I
23:08have some graphic design experience and
23:10I know how to put together on good
23:14graphic design in general the website
23:16programming itself was done I didn’t do
23:18any of it um I there’s a free service
23:20called Wix I paid for papers that move
23:23their ads off my site but um the what so
23:26I’m sorry what service is that because
23:28you know everything that we talked about
23:30today is gonna you know if they
23:32subscribe back at Mitchell chadroy com
23:34they’ll be able to get a transcript
23:35they’ll be able to also see all of the
23:38links of all the things that we talked
23:39about so I think for other people you
23:42know when they’re listening up because
23:44there’s there’s a value bomb here for
23:46them to hear so if you can let us know
23:49what that is I’ll definitely make sure
23:51to have the link oh yeah um it’s called
23:54Wix comm WI XCOM okay yeah we’re okay
23:58I’m familiar with that okay yeah it’s
24:00got a very nice website builder this is
24:03a lot of freedom and that’s just the one
24:04that I personally prefer but as far as
24:06arranging it I just happen to have some
24:08I have some experience with writing and
24:11content producing and graphic design in
24:14general just from a lot of doing a lot
24:17of sketching and growing out pins
24:20taking some extra English classes on
24:23high school overall it’s just in a lot
24:25of kind of I’m finding that my personal
24:28style resonates with people so that’s
24:30very convenient too so so far my graphic
24:32design has been something that I’ve been
24:34able to handle by myself I do need to
24:36start looking into more graphic design
24:38because um or info paying people I guess
24:43for dropping design especially with
24:44patterns and things because that’s
24:45getting a little bit difficult to draw
24:47each one but yeah with with that kind of
24:51thing that’s something about personally
24:52I know that I have a talent for so so we
24:55know we know from one of our last shows
24:57with a mere address that she actually
25:00had a law firm in Delaware helped her
25:03through the through the warm program
25:06with her patent what what what type of
25:10resources have you been able to use not
25:13only to help you with the prototype and
25:15the patent itself but you know in terms
25:18of trademarking logo design things of
25:20that nature have you been able to to
25:22utilize certain resources and maybe you
25:25can tell us a little bit about those um
25:27actually when I did my incorporation um
25:30with Inc file comso ISD file comm know
25:36what company is that again Inc file com
25:40oke not not I think AI did a lot of they
25:45gave me a lot of free resources they
25:46they gave me a free tax on consultation
25:50and a free trade free trademark search
25:53so right now I’m in the process of trade
25:55marking on the flip wallet oh and on the
25:59logo that I have on the site but as far
26:02as patenting I mentioned this in public
26:04before so I’m not worried about
26:05mentioning it anymore but um I can’t
26:08actually defend a patent on this product
26:10simply because it was on it was publicly
26:15disclosed over a year ago so that’s
26:17something that I was really surprised
26:19and sad to hear so if anybody out there
26:21is getting a pet has a product that
26:23they’re starting to think about or they
26:25first showed to everyday posted online
26:28or something within a year ago you have
26:30to in America once you show everybody
26:33your design you
26:33online you you make a post value
26:36presented in a public place you you have
26:37to patent it within a year and if you’re
26:40defending that patent in the future and
26:42a lawyer is able to find a record of you
26:44publicly disclosing your design a year
26:47prior to your patenting date then it’s
26:49not defensible they can just take your
26:51idea so it’s not really worthwhile to
26:55get a patent if you’ve done that I tried
26:57to sell this once before three years ago
26:59with a very different um it was very
27:02different back then the materials were
27:03very different I didn’t do well but
27:05because of that I can can flip on the
27:07other hand there’s a lot of other
27:09alternatives um and I think my strategy
27:11right now is actually just to brand
27:13really hard which is kind of why I’m
27:14doing the trademarks right now it’s just
27:17to make sure that people know that I’m
27:19the one that has this design and put it
27:21this fast I can now you mentioned about
27:24your other products and and so it sounds
27:27as if like Scott Packer Ella in in our
27:30in our episode zero one two he’s
27:34actually a serial entrepreneur so it
27:36sounds like you have other products that
27:38you have in mind and so it sounds as if
27:41not only have you learned from what I
27:44would consider to be maybe a misstep but
27:48it’ll probably benefit you from other
27:51products and there’s no question about
27:53everyone out there listening in the
27:55trusted friends community that there are
27:57there is somebody out there who’s
27:59listening right now who does have a
28:01product who might have disclosed it and
28:05wasn’t aware of that particular rule and
28:07how important it was that they were able
28:10to hear it from you in terms of you know
28:13how you had to learn from it so so maybe
28:16talk to us generally about about some of
28:18the other things that you’re working on
28:19and what what what law firms are you’re
28:23working with or what accounting firms
28:24are you’re working with to sort of help
28:27you with cash flow projections and and
28:29to help you you know with with those
28:30types of numbers as well and maybe other
28:32people that are on advisory boards that
28:35you might have in terms of the resources
28:37that you’re currently utilizing not only
28:40for flip wallet but for other products
28:41as well going forward um actually
28:47haven’t really looked at other products
28:48besides that besides flips that much
28:49like you said that’s the one that I’m
28:51kind of pushing for right now and it’s
28:53really just taking all of my focus to
28:55make it happen as fast as I’d like it to
28:57so I’m invested fully in flip right now
29:00and the other products are kind of just
29:01I put them online in case for people to
29:04show interest like I said before I think
29:06it’s important to provide calls to
29:08actions for almost everything that
29:09you’re doing just so that if people are
29:11interested you you have a resource to
29:13show that they were in the future but
29:17well I think that there’s going to be
29:18interest and that’s why you certainly
29:21piqued my interest so that that’s why I
29:24wanted to bring it up you know you
29:26talked a little bit I read some of your
29:29blog posts I think people will really
29:30like your writing you talked a little
29:33bit about minimal design and and as it
29:36relates to what you’re currently doing
29:37now and you apply it to some other
29:39things as well maybe talk to us a little
29:41bit about that because I found some
29:43interest in that okay yeah so I have
29:46this mindset that I don’t really like
29:49person I don’t like minimal design
29:50actually I started thinking about that
29:53by myself what line in butt and the
29:55first time that I got validation on that
29:57was actually I was talking to some
29:58people behind another successful
30:00Kickstarter the nuria air conditioner I
30:02really I really like them they’re
30:04working out the same co-working space
30:06that I am ok just actually and they they
30:09are really um they also don’t like
30:12minimal design and I the reason I don’t
30:14like minimal design is kind of because
30:16it assumes that everything should be as
30:18simple as possible and that you should
30:20focus a product you should take a
30:22product and focus all of its design down
30:24into one function but there’s a lot of
30:25products that really should be doing
30:27more than one thing like wallets and I
30:30guess laptops and all phones um and
30:32those things are are designed to do more
30:35than one thing which is why I I guess I
30:38don’t like minimal design going forward
30:39because it’s kind of only suited for
30:41really basic things and people are
30:43starting to apply it to more advanced
30:45technology they’re trying to make phones
30:47and TVs that only have one button and
30:49that kind of thing in vessels popular
30:50right now and I think there’s a lot more
30:52we can do
30:53at the place we’re in as a I guess of
30:57the species or with our technology
30:59because we’re able to
31:00they probably sufficiently do more than
31:02one thing in a way that it’s easy for
31:04people to understand and I guess that’s
31:06how I just kind of design my products is
31:07that the able to do more than one thing
31:08in a simple way yeah well you know what
31:11really caught my eye is you actually
31:12said but it’s time that we actually
31:14start pushing the envelope and using
31:17more to do more so so you’re really
31:19you’re really turning it upside down and
31:22really look at it from it from another
31:25and and I also liked what you said
31:27because one of my favorite books by one
31:29of the podcasts that we did on harvey
31:32mackay he actually has a book called
31:34pushing the envelope he’s holding the
31:36envelope above his head so it was very
31:38visual for me and and I think it
31:40resonated with me that you know you can
31:42you can use more to do more and so
31:45anyway that that’s why I wanted to find
31:47out a little bit more about you know
31:49what you thought about that and I think
31:51other people can sort of look at that in
31:54terms of the types of products that
31:56they’re currently either trying to
31:57develop or trying to think about how to
31:59improve what is a reach application you
32:03know I read one of your other blogs and
32:05you talked a little bit about reach
32:06application and and maybe how you know
32:09you can apply that philosophy to to
32:11startups in general or products that
32:13that not only are you developing like
32:15flip wallet but maybe you know how other
32:17people can maybe apply it to an idea
32:19that they can come up with for their own
32:22product sure actually that’s in line
32:24with what I was saying before about um
32:26the way that I think being a loan
32:29founders more about being believing that
32:31you’re capable of learning anything
32:32rather than believing that you’re
32:33inherently capable of doing any okay
32:35with reach applications
32:37um it kind of started when I was
32:39applying for reach school I was pretty
32:41sure I was going to go the University of
32:43Delaware because their in-state tuition
32:44was very low and I could graduate
32:46without debt so I but I still applied to
32:49twelve other schools because I think
32:51it’s important to consider not just what
32:54if an application is not just like a way
32:57to get into something but as a way to
32:58for the people that you’re applying to
33:01to define the kind of person that you
33:02are so when you think about it that way
33:04you can you can think of a application
33:06as kind of a way to gauge you as a set
33:08of rules that kind of like to find the
33:10kind of applicants they’re looking for
33:11so when I’m applying for start
33:15the accelerators and things like that I
33:17look at their applications that’s kind
33:19of a guideline for hey we want we’re
33:21looking for this kind of person to be in
33:23our startup accelerator so I think okay
33:25so I want to be that kind of person so
33:28if I can successfully fill out this
33:29application then I will be that kind of
33:31person so I kind of used their
33:33applications that’s like an FAQ there’s
33:36a list of things that I should do before
33:37I before I consider myself where I want
33:40to be so I applied the Y Combinator
33:42pretty quickly within a few months the
33:45boy started where to lift because I
33:47didn’t know where I wanted to go but I
33:48did know I wanted to be the kind of
33:50entrepreneur that would get into Y
33:51Combinator so I didn’t get in but their
33:53application actually I think is one of
33:56the key reasons I got into a hen hatch
33:57because it part is application will make
33:59all of your other applications better
34:01for it for doing it I think that there’s
34:03a real value bomb in that trusted
34:04friends and I think there’s a lot of
34:06brilliance in what Chris is saying and
34:09if you listen up there’s there’s a lot
34:11of different ideas you know Chris we
34:13talked to obviously a lot of young
34:16entrepreneurs new startups people who
34:18are in the growth stage there’s also a
34:20lot of people who are actually sitting
34:22on a fence who are either 9 to 5 who
34:25obviously wants to start up a business
34:27or we might actually have somebody who’s
34:29fresh out of college who’s trying to get
34:30the job for the first time so I mean
34:32this reach application can actually even
34:35apply to trying to get a regular job
34:38hoping that one day you’ll transition
34:41into self-employment so there’s a lot of
34:43different applications for for this
34:45philosophy correct yeah there’s really
34:47no harm in reaching a little farther and
34:49I can’t think of a single application
34:51where they I can’t think of a single
34:53application where it hurts you to be
34:54applying the second time so it also
34:56doesn’t hurt for them to just know be
34:58aware of you as you apply multiple times
35:00to something there’s there’s no reason
35:02to be ashamed of it because you learn a
35:03lot along the way sure you know I listen
35:06to you very closely I listened up early
35:08on in our conversation where you were
35:10talking about your parents and making
35:12sure that they were above board or on
35:15board with you in terms of your decision
35:17to really become an entrepreneur and it
35:20made me think to myself you know has
35:22anyone actually tried to say to you why
35:24don’t you just go out get a job work for
35:27someone else nine-to-five whether it be
35:29your parents or advisers or mentors or
35:32accountants or other other people out
35:34there has there been anybody who kind of
35:35discouraged you or made you think twice
35:38my parents have said that to me a few
35:40times but I think the reason that
35:42they’ve been so on board with this and
35:44not mentioned said too much to me is
35:46because first of all he did tell them
35:48that next January if I’m not if I
35:50haven’t made $60,000 in the first year I
35:52will start looking for a normal job in
35:54addition to continuing this but at the
35:56same time when I was growing up I always
35:58did kind of pursue that nine-to-five I
36:00always it was very I think it was clear
36:02to them I made it very clear that I
36:03wanted to be successful so when I told
36:06them that this is what I wanted to do I
36:07think they they knew that I wasn’t I
36:10wasn’t playing around because I I
36:12wouldn’t stop pursuing a normal
36:15successful career for no reason I think
36:17that story is really going to resonate
36:19very well with a lot of people that are
36:21feeling pressure whether it be like you
36:23said from a parent or it could be from a
36:25spouse or it could be from someone who
36:28is very supportive but fearful and it
36:31sounds as if you said look you know if
36:33this thing doesn’t do 60,000 I will get
36:35a nine-to-five job but I also heard you
36:37say that I’ll still be able to do this
36:39on the side or my own spare time so it
36:42you’re sort of building into that real
36:44success I think you know you’re giving
36:46yourself some lead way and you’re being
36:48good to yourself I think I I think we
36:50all listened up to that I think it’s
36:51important that to realize that if
36:53somebody um if somebody is concerned
36:55about what you’re doing that there’s a
36:57reason for it you can’t just assume that
36:58everybody’s being crazy when my parents
37:00told me that I should think about major
37:02when moving forward I really did too
37:04stuff I don’t think anybody I don’t
37:06think anybody is concerned for no reason
37:07about anything so that’s always
37:09something to consider that their their
37:10perspective isn’t incorrect and you
37:12should think about why they’re asking
37:13you why you don’t have a 95 job yeah a
37:16lot of wisdom there Chris I think I
37:17think you’re really going to help a lot
37:18of people are fastpitch Mitchel Chad
37:21Road comm slash books for books audio
37:25books guest recommendations and the
37:27books that I read to start off each day
37:31sponsors are fastpitch my book club
37:34recommendations that get mitchell chad
37:36road comm slash books to see more of my
37:40recommendation of our guests just go to
37:42Mitchell Chad wrote calm slash books
37:45it’s your number one resource for book
37:47reviews and recommendations you know
37:50Chris in this next round we actually
37:51call it our lightning round or our fast
37:53round where I just basically ask you
37:55some very quick questions you tell me
37:57what’s on your mind and we’ll have a lot
37:58of fun with it I’m sure and then at the
38:01end I’ll do some sponsors you know how
38:03we could all keep in contact with you
38:05and maybe some parting words from you
38:07can you tell us Chris the best business
38:10advice you ever got I think Zach Jones
38:12current president of the
38:13Entrepreneurship Club once told me I’ve
38:15heard him telling somebody that it’s
38:16very important when you are starting a
38:18business that if you’re scared
38:19somebody’s going to steal your idea and
38:21you think usually patent and do all that
38:22stuff first you you you can’t be because
38:24the most important thing is to tell them
38:26any people’s you can’t about your ideas
38:27poeple it’s like I said nothing’s going
38:28to happen by yourself you want to get
38:30maximum exposure of your concept because
38:31if it’s really a good idea somebody’s
38:33going to help you yeah more brilliant
38:35there Chris a business book that has
38:37inspired you motivated you or that you
38:39think you know can help others you know
38:42get unstuck and sort of move forward in
38:44their own endeavors oh gosh I I have it
38:48I haven’t read a business book from
38:49cover to cover yet just that that’s okay
38:52I mean is there is there one that you’ve
38:54kind of gotten into a little bit it
38:57could be a chapter or two or or even a
38:59good book you know a book that you know
39:02has sort of given you good ideas it
39:05doesn’t have to necessarily be a
39:06business book but a book that you like
39:08that you think would resonate with other
39:10people that are listening there’s a book
39:13that over stop once a free lunch Friday
39:15speaker at the Entrepreneurship Club the
39:17VDC and universidades me called the hard
39:20thing about hard things by my assumption
39:23of what the majority of that book is
39:25about and I will get to get about to
39:26reading it I have is that by Ben
39:28Horowitz yes yeah a very very good book
39:32and he’s he’s written a few others as
39:34well so great great choice and what
39:38we’ll definitely have a link to that as
39:40well because you know at Mitchell Chad
39:42Road comm slash audible you know people
39:44can actually down that one free audible
39:47book for a thirty day free trial so if
39:50you just head on over to Mitchell Chad
39:52Road calm slash audible you know
39:54people can get that book as well so that
39:56that’s that’s definitely a good a good
39:59book to to get how about an app that you
40:02use to help you in business could be in
40:04fam with your family and life in general
40:07something that you think you know could
40:09help others I’ve used Gmail a lot and
40:12there’s I think there’s a lot of things
40:14you can see what you know I’m almost
40:15treating it like social media in a sense
40:17in that I have all I email my dates
40:19catches a lot I had a lot of people –
40:21mailing lists and things like that and
40:24it seems really basic to be saying email
40:26is the most important app but I’ve I
40:29send email almost every day and when I
40:31started my data test the first thing I
40:32told my testers was that hey guys um let
40:35me know if you want design updates or if
40:37you do not want them if you just want to
40:39be a beta tester and 85 of them said
40:41that they wanted to get design updates
40:43and I let them know that that meant two
40:44or three emails a week and I kept that
40:46up so I think keeping the people that
40:49want to be in the loop completely in the
40:50loop is very important and Gmail is a
40:53great tool for and and I also love Gmail
40:56I mean I think it’s it’s so it’s so
40:58brilliant the way the way that Google
41:00has designed it and using it is very
41:03intuitive and there’s a lot of there’s a
41:05lot of good plugins to use it with with
41:08other apps as well so good good good app
41:12to mention I know we talked a little bit
41:14about some of your quotes but but maybe
41:16another quote or a mantra that actually
41:19inspires you motivates you something
41:21that you’ve kind of used to kind of live
41:23by so to speak yes I said a few things
41:27I’m trying to think about what I haven’t
41:29said um I mean I I only sometimes when
41:34I’m thinking about you know being
41:36introspective and thinking about what
41:37I’ve been doing recently and whether or
41:39not I should do something different
41:40um I think I think about the fact that
41:42I’m very lucky because I simply want to
41:46do things in like a reasonable way like
41:48when I a lot of the times when I’m doing
41:50things I just kind of feel whatever I
41:52want and what I want is inherently just
41:54to do things that are easy to understand
41:58for people that that are easy to digest
42:00I I naturally want to think about what
42:02other people how other people perceive
42:04my word but I think that when it comes
42:06down to it that okay
42:07there it is always be thinking about how
42:09your work is perceived by other people
42:11because okay easy to it’s easy to see
42:13that you’re doing something in a certain
42:15it’s easy for me to say like okay I like
42:17this design because when I use it I like
42:19it but one of the reasons I’m doing the
42:21Stata test is because I know that I’m
42:23going to get a lot of feedback that I
42:24haven’t thought about before from all
42:25over the place cheaper when people use
42:27their wallets they’re going to use in a
42:28different way than I do and it’s going
42:29to mean that I have to design a certain
42:31way so I think with a lot of different
42:33types of design that’s important just
42:35the way that any average person would
42:38instantly perceive what you’re doing
42:40mm-hmm you know it’s really interesting
42:42I usually ask the questions but I
42:45actually came across a quote that you
42:47had written and it was about life
42:49entrepreneurship or at least I I looked
42:51at it that way and you said I’m always
42:52looking for advice on the little fish in
42:55a big pond as they say and that that’s
42:58certainly resonated with me anyway
43:00having a fun fact to cook to close this
43:01fast round out um I play a lot of you do
43:05the trading card game by one of my
43:07products is actually a special a mat for
43:10like a playing surface for for your gift
43:13card game that’s like a stack box that
43:14converts into a mat and if you bill to
43:16my site you’ll kind of see what I mean
43:17about that but yeah I play a lot of UGA
43:19life travel for it I defarge dive travel
43:22by Sloan I flew the Nashville once four
43:24national championships last year really
43:26really cool Chris and as a matter of
43:28fact at the end when you give out how
43:30everybody can stay in contact with you
43:32they could actually watch that video on
43:35your on your website I actually went of
43:37course and and I’ve watched it several
43:39times already very very neat don’t
43:42forget to subscribe at Mitchell Chad
43:44Road calm for a full transcript of
43:47today’s interview free premium resources
43:50like an LLC as corporation template
43:52forms and to also get a free will power
43:56of attorney living will and trust
43:58template forms listen up for today’s
44:01interview you can just go to Mitchell
44:03Chad Road comm slash show zero one seven
44:07and for our next interview show zero one
44:11a is going to be J moots he is the Dean
44:14of the McGeorge Law School university of
44:17pacific in sacramento california chris
44:19linn we really listened
44:21to what you had to say today this has
44:23really been awesome and it’s really been
44:26terrific tell us some parting words of
44:28wisdom and then how everybody can stay
44:30in contact with you and we like to
44:33obviously keep in touch to see how
44:35you’re progressing with the product
44:36bringing the product to market and then
44:38we’ll we’ll say goodbye until we speak
44:40again I think the best designs are the
44:42best solutions are the problems that you
44:44don’t have to explain to people and I
44:45guess to keep in touch with me my email
44:47address is actually hard to spell wrong
44:49at all one word with the word
44:51- spelled out it’s not a number and I
44:54think my website without region earlier
44:56perfect and so we’ll have all those
44:58links back at the website again Chris we
45:00want to thank you so much this has been
45:01terrific you’ll keep us up-to-date and
45:04we look forward to talking to you soon
45:06again you take care of yourself thank
45:08you yeah we represent this in closing
45:10let me have for my listeners help first
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45:17you will get all the full interview
45:19transcripts my ebook 30 tools to start
45:22up where I talk about these free
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45:31just by signing up at Mitchell chadroy
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46:08Chad Road comm slash sign up thank you
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46:16until next time

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