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Digital Marketing Industry Agency SEO, Social, Paid, and Content Foxtail Founder Mike Templeman Show 013

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0:00you’re listening to the listen up show
0:01darn up entrepreneur podcast I’m
0:03Mitchell Chad Rowe your host today on
0:05show zero one three today we’re here
0:09with Mike Templeman failure should not
0:11be something that you say yeah I fail
0:13failure should be something that just
0:15stings and you just makes you a
0:18miserable sack and if it Ben I think
0:21you’re going to learn from it and it’s
0:22going to be strong and pertinent enough
0:24to actually stick with you and so when I
0:26think of failure I’ve got a couple that
0:28comes right off the top of my head one
0:29of them was trusting people I trusted

0:31people to do what they said they would
0:33do and to abide by unwritten rules and
0:38by unwritten agreements and these types
0:40of things and why stabbed in the
0:43numerous times and I’m a very trusting
0:45person and now I’d live with a very
0:48healthy dose of skepticism to where I
0:50would say I am pretty much cynical about
0:52a lot of things and it’s okay because
0:55you kind of need that in business
0:57because there really is an entire
1:00underbelly of the business world that is
1:02looking to take advantage of the
1:04unsuspecting so your business it’s your
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1:58we’re here today with Mike Templeman
2:00Mike is an entrepreneur he’s a writer
2:02who enjoys writing about startup and
2:04geylang service businesses and all
2:06things content marketing he’s also the
2:08founder foxtail marketing which is
2:10actually a digit
2:11demand generation firms locations in
2:13Canada Australia London New York City
2:16justjust the name of you right Mike
2:18that’s correct yeah super you actually
2:20have columns in Forbes and Entrepreneur
2:22Magazine but Mike why don’t you fill in
2:24some of the gaps tell us a little bit
2:26about you both personally and
2:28professionally to give us some insight
2:30so that the audience can can learn a
2:32little bit more about you okay so I
2:34started off in Canada I’m actually
2:37Canadian by birth and moved down to
2:39Georgia where kind of grew up and then
2:42migrated over to Utah where ended up
2:45marrying a Utah gal and am now here but
2:48with that it professionally started in
2:51the marketing departments of some
2:53companies launched my own venture back
2:56in 2009 was able to sell that in 2013
2:59and then rolled the profits from that
3:01into the agency Fox sales and was able
3:06to bootstrap it and grow it without you
3:09know adding anybody to the cap table
3:10which was kind of a focus for me at that
3:12point at a very messy cap table with my
3:15previous engagement and really wanted to
3:17just do something on my own
3:18and that’s you know been great for
3:21growth we are well above 60 employees
3:24now and growing aggressively and really
3:28looking to bring something different to
3:30the digital marketing landscape our
3:32startup around for all your hosting
3:35needs head on over to Mitchell Chad Road
3:37comm slash hosting Mitchell Chad Road
3:40comm lash hosting for all your web
3:43hosting need who do you use to host this
3:45website I also noticed that just from
3:48from all your writings and looking at
3:50the website that you’re also very much
3:52into educating consumers your clients
3:56and sort of taking them all the way
3:57through and taking really a very complex
4:00subject matter and really kind of you
4:02know making it simple and easy for for
4:04people to understand I noticed that you
4:06have that foxtail University and your
4:08blog you know the Fox teen tell us a
4:10little bit about the importance of that
4:12and how you work with your clients in
4:14that regard my personal opinion is an
4:16informed client is the best client and
4:19with that being the case we also
4:21practice what we preach here and we tell
4:24our clients when they
4:25creating content you got to give till it
4:26hurts because if you’re trying to
4:29attract people with content marketing
4:30that is very superficial and doesn’t
4:33really solve their problems you’re just
4:35going to drown out you’re just going to
4:36sound like everybody else instead what
4:38we tell them is show them how the
4:39sausage is made
4:40tell them exactly how you do everything
4:42and the truth that matters most people
4:44are coming to you because you’re so good
4:46at what you do not what you do if it’s a
4:49service company and for that matter we
4:52teach people everything we do all of the
4:55tactics are available for download
4:56online via ebooks or go to our Fox veil
4:59University section you can learn learn
5:01learn we do trainings with our existing
5:03clients and while I am NOT a gifted
5:06writer by any stretch
5:07I suck at grammar and you know just just
5:10I don’t really I’m not really a great
5:14writer from a structural point of view I
5:16can tell a story and what I what I do
5:18think is one of my strengths is I made
5:20us take complicated ideas and wrap them
5:23into a metaphor that pretty much anybody
5:24can pick up and I was teaching that way
5:26so that’s what a lot of my writing does
5:28and it’s very I would say is evidence
5:33sometimes Forbes does try and tell me
5:35down quite a bit officers a little bit
5:37more open to my personality but you know
5:41it comes out and it’s a lot of fun sure
5:44you know it’s interesting we just had
5:46Scott Packer ello on our last podcast
5:50and one of the things that he said is
5:52everybody’s good at something focus on
5:55what you’re good at and and from what I
5:57heard from you you know you’re good at
5:58sort of you know telling that that story
6:02and and not necessarily grammar and and
6:05and other nuts and bolts with that come
6:08with the writing but there’s there’s
6:09something that that people are good at
6:11so we’re talking to a lot of
6:12entrepreneurs and then trying to
6:14motivate them to sort of either start or
6:16grow or scale up that business I mean
6:19you already now have success this is
6:20being your second business how did you
6:23do that with the with the first business
6:25you know basically scale it up turn it
6:27around sell it and then take some of
6:29those profits and start the digital
6:31content marketing firm that you now have
6:33that you’ve grown to 60 employees well
6:35obviously my first company was a
6:38nightmare I did not run it well I made
6:42so many mistakes in retrospect it was a
6:45big learning experience had failure
6:47after failure but was luckily able to
6:49build something that still generated
6:51revenue and grew very quickly but in
6:53hindsight could have been so much more
6:55and in 10 to 15 years I hope to look
6:58back on what I’m doing now and agreed
7:00that whatever I’ve done with foxtail
7:02well I might feel it is a adequate
7:05sometime it I keep doing so much more
7:08and the goal is just to keep learning
7:11and growing from those mistakes so
7:12really I don’t even value the money that
7:14was made from the sale of the last
7:16organization but more so the experience
7:19that I received and I have gained
7:21immense amounts of experiencing what I’m
7:23currently doing as well and it has to
7:26grow and learn and know what I’m not
7:28going to do what I am going to do in the
7:29future and I think that that was really
7:33the most valuable thing I was able to
7:34get out of it when helping entrepreneurs
7:36and in this case what you do is SEO
7:38we’ll get into that a little bit you
7:40know one of the things that the
7:41entrepreneurs are learning from the new
7:43startups are other people’s failures and
7:45what they’ve actually learned from it so
7:47that they don’t obviously have to go
7:49through those same types of things and
7:51they can sort of gain that wisdom and
7:53sort of be a little bit more ahead of
7:54the game if you will so take us through
7:56and it could have been your last
7:58endeavor that it sounds like in all
8:00aspects you know you were able to
8:02obviously you know make a profit even
8:05though you didn’t use that as the
8:06measuring stick of your success but but
8:08maybe tell our audience a little bit
8:10about you know your lowest point as an
8:12entrepreneur as a business person and
8:14what you actually learned from it and
8:16maybe some takeaways so that the
8:18audience can sort of gain from that as
8:20well and and and and in doing so can
8:22learn a little bit more about you and
8:25the organization that you’ve now built
8:27into this successful agency yeah
8:29whenever I think about it and you know I
8:31wrote an article on Forbes a little bit
8:32ago called let’s knock it off with all
8:35the failure praising just because while
8:37I do aspire to to learn from my failures
8:41and I do think that people should learn
8:44as quickly as possible from their
8:45failures I feel like
8:47with Silicon Valley and the rise of the
8:50the the conversation that and the you
8:54know the the narrative around failure
8:58it’s shifting from being something that
9:01should be really a negative that comes
9:04into a positive if people are doing it
9:06as a positive that’s a positive and I
9:08think it still should be viewed as a
9:09negative but you have to learn from it
9:11and it can turn into a positive a lot of
9:14people kind of where these failures on
9:16their sleeve and say yeah you know ways
9:19to talk money failed the company but I
9:21learned a lot of stuff into the next
9:23thing well I don’t think you’re really
9:25talking about that I think you should be
9:26talking about you know yes share people
9:29share with people that the failure the
9:31story of the failure but embrace it for
9:33what it really wants and the reason I
9:35say that is because I read all these
9:36posts on medium and on I find them on
9:40Twitter all the time of founders who
9:42have run their companies into the ground
9:43and they give their what I learned
9:46speech and it’s always the same damn
9:48thing Oh watch your burn rate actually
9:50build a company people want to pay for
9:52don’t focus too much on marketing but
9:54rather on product and stuff like oh of
9:57wait what are you talking about this is
9:59news thank you for the insight but if
10:01you were leading all the other failure
10:02posts you would have realized that you
10:04were doing all those stupid things we
10:05want to talk about failure but they
10:07don’t actually learn from it a lot of
10:08times and you really do i failure should
10:12not be something that you say yeah i
10:14fail failure should be something that
10:16just stings and you just makes you a
10:19miserable sack and if it been i think
10:22you’re going to learn from it and it’s
10:23going to be strong and pertinent enough
10:25to actually stick with you and so when I
10:27think of failure I’ve got a couple that
10:29come right off the top of my head one of
10:30them was trusting people I trusted
10:33people to do what they said they would
10:34do and to abide by unwritten rules and
10:39by unwritten agreements and these types
10:41of things and why stabbed in the back
10:44from Maryland numerous times and I’m a
10:46very trusting person and now I’d lived
10:49with a very healthy dose of skepticism
10:50to where I would say I am pretty much
10:53cynical about a lot of things and
10:56it’s okay because you kind of need that
10:58in business because there really is an
11:00entire under ability of the business
11:03world that is looking to take advantage
11:05of the unsuspecting so for that reason I
11:08was burned in a situation where a
11:12partner of ours sent some of their
11:15employees to our office to do corporate
11:18espionage to be able to steal and use
11:20stuff against us and all these types of
11:22things meanwhile they were coming under
11:24the guise of I can’t make enough money
11:25at this place and I’m desperate for help
11:27can you please help me out and go
11:29through this big sob story and of course
11:30believe it right out of hand and ended
11:33up being a horrible situation for us
11:35where they tried to capture all this
11:37stuff legally and really they were just
11:39looking to screw us and wanted
11:40ammunition to order a settlement to let
11:43us not sue them into the Stone Age
11:45because they knew they were going to end
11:47up screwing up so that that led me to
11:49that and then the second one that I’ve
11:51learned the most of was and I know it
11:54sounds terrible saying don’t trust
11:55people but I’ve seen it alpha in
11:56business trust them as far as they’re
12:00willing to sign on something and then
12:01you know just get it in writing cuz you
12:03never know and then the second one was
12:05with my last company I I thought the
12:09idea of raising money and bringing in
12:11investors with some form of success when
12:13really it’s not you’re taking debt out
12:15on the company you are bringing in extra
12:18cooks into the kitchen and all these
12:19different analogies you want to use
12:22there but it made my life miserable and
12:25while it helped us grow very quickly and
12:27I was able to scale it I never was able
12:31to make the company what I wanted it to
12:33so because of that I said you know what
12:36on my next one I’m rolling the dice yes
12:39I’m taking a bigger chance because it is
12:41my money but it is my company and I get
12:43to call the shop and that’s why I did it
12:46so I don’t I think nowadays people think
12:49that raising money is some form of
12:50success but you know there’s a guy here
12:53who we’ve worked with as a client and
12:55they’re one of those unicorns
12:57qualtrix and their CEO Ryan Smith likes
13:00to say people come up to me and
13:02congratulate me on our latest round of
13:04funding but I can’t remember the last
13:05time I want to congratulate it someone
13:07on getting a you know
13:09million-dollar mortgage or something
13:10like that that’s basically what it is
13:12you’re just getting into debt or you’re
13:14getting all these added responsibilities
13:17and and I think that I at the time was
13:20not aware of how that all worked and I
13:22think that a lot of entrepreneurs that
13:23have come up in this the summer time for
13:26fund raising really don’t understand all
13:30the things that they are committing to
13:32and and so you know that that brings me
13:35to two quick points and I’ll just
13:37comment on on your point about you know
13:40bringing up failures and and sort of you
13:43know people that actually talk about
13:44their their failures like as if it’s
13:46some kind of a you know a good thing and
13:48I think that when you’re when you’re
13:50talking to people like the listen up
13:53podcast trusted friends audience here
13:55one of the things that we kind of value
13:57the most is not only education but but
14:01dealing with genuine people that we can
14:03trust and that we can’t count on like
14:05you know basically we say trust smarter
14:07so when when building your personal
14:09relationships how do you know who you
14:12can count on how do you know you can go
14:13to a certain person that’s going to be
14:16able to help you and one of the reasons
14:18actually Mike that we had you on the
14:19show today is because you know a lot of
14:22people are building their websites
14:23they’re trying to sort of build their
14:25subscriber base and there’s so many
14:28talking heads out there about SEO about
14:31content marketing about building up
14:33scaling up and because of that it’s kind
14:36of hard in a very loud crowded noisy
14:39marketplace who we can actually count on
14:42and who we can actually trust and
14:44actually when I I started to read some
14:47of your stuff and I started looking
14:49through it all I could actually tell at
14:51least that was the feeling that I got
14:53that this was somebody that I could
14:55trust that that actually is someone who
14:57has built this organization has built
14:59this company and someone that’s actually
15:02speaking to me and if you were doing
15:04that and speaking to me I felt very
15:06comfortable and having you on the show
15:08because I knew that it was going to
15:09resonate with other people in the
15:11audience so that’s why I think you know
15:14it’s good to sometimes talk about your
15:16failures it’s all in the the content of
15:19who’s actually
15:20hearing it you know for me it lets me
15:23know who you are as a human being as a
15:25person and when I’m building a
15:27relationship with someone like that
15:28that’s you know unfortunately how to go
15:31through that but it really does tell me
15:33something about you
15:35and it makes me trust you actually even
15:37more um so anyway for me that’s a good
15:40thing um but you know you you might look
15:42at it differently and then your second
15:44point I think was very helpful to the
15:45audience and that is Bank smarter
15:47in other words we had a guest on that
15:49that you know that the Mike Callahan and
15:52and Bonnie Harvey who sold who actually
15:55sold barefoot wines – EJ gallo they said
15:59you know it’s not all about borrowing a
16:01lot of money
16:02um because at the end of the day
16:04sometimes that’s not the best way to
16:06grow your business so look what you’re
16:08doing now you’re you’re obviously not
16:10doing that you’re taking the opposite
16:12approach and I think for young
16:13entrepreneurs out there for people who
16:15are just starting their businesses and
16:17people who are now trying to scale up I
16:19think that those are two very important
16:21messages and they can learn something
16:23from you by those failure stories so
16:26anyway that that’s my take on that
16:28yeah and I appreciate that and I think
16:31to go along with what you were saying
16:34raising money in it nowadays and what I
16:38think is the biggest issue here is
16:40raising money will convince you that you
16:43have a product or service that people
16:45want because when you have a lot of
16:48money you don’t have to worry about cash
16:49flow and customers and revenues as much
16:52you you have a little bit more time so
16:55you’re able to spend more on marketing
16:56and if you spend enough in marketing you
16:58can sell a really crappy service or
16:59product but people turn out of those
17:02very quickly they realize that they
17:04weren’t so the bill of goods they want
17:06they will eventually turn out of that
17:07and so by building a company without
17:11venture funding or without a lot of
17:13outside dealing it makes you very
17:16quickly iterate a product or service
17:19that people need because the only way
17:21you’re going to grow is by getting
17:22customers and customers that stay and it
17:25forces you to grow off of revenue and
17:27whether you only comes from successfully
17:29selling your product and successfully
17:31maintaining the customer
17:32whereas if you’re able to raise 30-40
17:34million dollars and goes discover your
17:36audience you don’t know for quite a
17:39while if you even have a viable business
17:41model or about a viable product and I
17:43think we’re noticing is that a lot of
17:44these venture groups that are venture
17:45backed good threads that are going up
17:47right now they come to the to the
17:50conclusion of we were selling something
17:52no one wanted yeah course you were but
17:55why did it take you four years well
17:57because they raised 100 million dollars
17:58and I think the better products come out
18:01of bootstrap companies and that might be
18:02in you know a broad statement but I
18:04really do believe that better services
18:06and products really do come out of a
18:08bootstrap company yeah no I think I
18:11think that that’s something that people
18:13out there in the audience are listening
18:14up to very important and we certainly
18:16hear you loud and clear
18:18so given given what you’ve learned to
18:20date and I’ve read some of these
18:21articles about you know you describe a
18:23funnel the top of the funnel in the the
18:25middle of the funnel and then the call
18:27to action and diagramming and all the
18:29various different ways that people out
18:32there who are building these websites
18:34who are now saying okay now where is the
18:36traffic and that’s where someone like
18:38yourself who actually knows how all of
18:40the the pieces move together not only on
18:43a micro level but on a macro level and
18:45someone that we can basically count on
18:47and trust maybe and it can be a very
18:50complex subject matter and I know you
18:52have a lot of educational materials at
18:54your site but maybe maybe take us
18:56through just a little bit maybe in a
18:59more simple fashion depending upon the
19:02the the level of understanding that
19:04people have in the audience and tell us
19:06a little bit about what you do and how
19:08that might be a little bit different
19:10than maybe some other companies and what
19:12they should be thinking about when it
19:13when it comes to content marketing and
19:15sort of bringing traffic to their
19:17websites well the truth of matter is and
19:18I just wrote an article hasn’t been
19:20published yet on this there was an
19:22article that said that the SEO industry
19:24is going to reach 65 billion in spending
19:27in 2016 and I wrote you know vast
19:29majority of that’s going to be spent on
19:31snake oil because most business owners
19:35and small entrepreneurs or even
19:38traditional marketers don’t really
19:40understand the digital landscape and
19:42because of that it’s nice on how easily
19:44manipulated it is
19:45I people in the industry and we have for
19:50some reason developed an entire
19:52measurement system on metrics that don’t
19:55matter keyword rankings traffic all
19:59these things that people think they Yi
20:01aren’t real
20:03because keyword rankings can be
20:05manipulated they can be they’re
20:08different for everybody it’s become more
20:09contextual in the sense that if you’re
20:11on a mobile device or if you are based
20:14on your search history or well who’s
20:16attached to you in certain social
20:17networks Google and Bing will serve you
20:19up different rankings so search rankings
20:21are completely relative based on the
20:24individual doing the search and the the
20:26way they are doing that search so why
20:28look at those traffic numbers can be
20:29manipulated I could send a million
20:31people to from his website tomorrow and
20:33probably cost him about $1,000 and that
20:36doesn’t mean any things so what we did
20:38was we founded an agency on the idea
20:40that we talk in the same numbers that
20:43our clients talk which is customers
20:45through the door revenues and so when we
20:48do when we kickoff the time and say how
20:50much do you need a CD from this campaign
20:53to make this successful for you and then
20:55that’s the number we work towards and
20:56that’s our KPI now all these I’m going
20:58to report to them what their traffic
20:59numbers are and what their keyword
21:00rankings yes we’re going to report just
21:02to give them some ideas of what
21:03happening but that if we’re not you know
21:07push new customers and revenues to them
21:10it doesn’t matter what the web what the
21:12traffic and keyword say so people need
21:15to change the way they think about
21:16digital marketing first off and they
21:17need to start just don’t worry about all
21:20the noise out there make marketing like
21:22any other marketing if I spend money on
21:24this am I going to get customers that
21:26should be your question and that should
21:27be your only question don’t worry if
21:28you’re going to get increased rankings
21:30you’re going to get more traffic that
21:31doesn’t matter
21:32so one terms have been able to go ahead
21:35now what I was going to say is it based
21:37on your revenue model and again people
21:39are coming in you know whether they’re
21:41just starting or whether they’re sort of
21:43you know they’ve been in business for
21:45several years or looking to obviously
21:47build up or they’re in the process of
21:48selling their business obviously you
21:51have different revenue models for for
21:53different people based on their budget
21:55or whatever type of solutions because
21:57you you
21:58to offer quite a number of you know
22:00solutions that are both you can do
22:02really it looks as if from your website
22:04you can really do from A to Z both
22:06horizontally and vertically integrated
22:08which is another reason why I thought it
22:10was important to have you on because you
22:12know it seems as if you can do
22:13everything but you ever tie that to what
22:17you charge based on the success of the
22:20customer so for example you know if I
22:23want to bring in X number of subscribers
22:25or X number of revenue is that ever tie
22:29to you know what you actually then would
22:32go ahead and charge a customer you see
22:34what I’m saying so that so that it’s
22:36truly tied to a win-win and everybody is
22:38is rooting for everybody to do very well
22:41right and what we found was that
22:44actually pay per performance engagements
22:47actually cause more antagonism between
22:50the parties than it does collaboration
22:52the reason being is I’m an agency and I
22:57sign up a client that wants to pay for
22:59performance the more success they have
23:03the more expensive I will become towards
23:05them and they will look for some way to
23:07exit agent eventually additionally it
23:10also opens the door for people to be
23:13dishonest in the sense that they don’t
23:15want to pay for this success or they
23:18might try and find ways that they could
23:20attribute that success to something else
23:22and that’s what honestly that’s
23:24unfortunately usually happens at one of
23:26those two scenarios the clients look to
23:29get out of the engagement because it’s
23:30becoming too expensive or there’s so
23:32much debate and discussion over what was
23:36really attributed to those efforts and
23:38can it be traced back to this and that
23:40it causes conflict right away so we stay
23:43completely away from those what we do is
23:46we are paid to do a job we come to our
23:49clients and we say we do an audit we
23:51look at them we say this is what you
23:52require and yes we do everything that is
23:55digital videos SEO content marketing
23:57social PPC email all of it why because
24:01if you were going to a contractor or a
24:04carpenter and a carpenter is the excuse
24:07all the time and they said well bringing
24:10your pieces of wood
24:12hammering and then you’re gonna have to
24:13go down the street to the guy that does
24:14the sawing and then the guy down the
24:16street that’s going to do the painting
24:17or do you want to go to someone that
24:19says I will build this for you here it
24:22is because I can use a saw I can use a
24:24level I can use a plane and all these
24:27different things that they require and
24:28so SEO PPC email marketing automation
24:31all that stuff are just tools in our
24:33tool belt what we’re really building for
24:35our clients is a funnel funnel that
24:36drives top of funnel traffic and then
24:38lose it down to convert at the bottom
24:40which is revenue and we tell our clients
24:44based on what your goals are and how
24:46much you want to make and what you want
24:49to do this is what your costs will be we
24:51agree on it and then we go forward we
24:53work on a three month engagement and
24:55then it goes month four month because I
24:57want to have to earn that client’s
24:58business every single month we have a
25:02high 2% visibility as well which i think
25:04is something that people don’t demand
25:06enough so our internal systems that our
25:09team uses that they log into every day
25:11and they’d complete work and they talk
25:14amongst each other and it’s our project
25:15management and our CRM and all these
25:17tools that’s completely touched on we’re
25:20facing our clients can log in and they
25:21get user access just like everybody else
25:23here and so they can tell when stuff’s
25:25being done what comments are being made
25:27when due dates are there everything they
25:29become part of the team and that’s how
25:31we make them a win-win because we don’t
25:34get to keep them as a client unless they
25:36succeed and they’re they need them to
25:39succeed to be happy so that both groups
25:43automatically want to win at that point
25:45as long as we’re always talking about
25:47the right success metrics which should
25:49always be revenue new leads generated
25:52customers that type of stuff as opposed
25:54to keyword rankings and traps sure you
25:57know it kind of reminds me I did a
25:59podcast on you know great apps that are
26:02out there that are low-cost or no-cost
26:04that people use in our audience to
26:07basically grow their business whether it
26:10be to develop their website but but at
26:12this point the reason why again that
26:14I’ve had you on is because this is the
26:16next step I mean you know it’s great to
26:18build a website it’s great to sort of do
26:21some of the other things but if you’re
26:23not bringing traffic to your site and so
26:25maybe I don’t know if you’re comfortable
26:27in sharing but you know you know you
26:29have a lot of people at different stages
26:31of the business and so some are looking
26:34at the cost and maybe they could only do
26:36one or two of the solutions but you know
26:38how do you make this affordable in the
26:41beginning with with customers with
26:44clients so that they can obviously
26:46generate business from it because
26:48obviously their success hopefully
26:50because they’re loyal I’m a loyal guy so
26:52I always stick with those who who have
26:54stuck with me but that’s just my mindset
26:56and I’m sure a lot of people in our
26:58audience feel that way as well just
27:00because that’s the mindset of our
27:02trusted community but but what do you do
27:05to sort of you know basically create a
27:08revenue stream that makes it more
27:10sensible more practical for more and
27:13more consumers to sort of get involved
27:15with an agency that you know as as large
27:19as yours already right and unfortunately
27:22what I tell a lot of our consultants
27:25here which are you know to another
27:27taxonomy are sales people but they don’t
27:29sell they consult is that we should be
27:31saying no more than we say yes because
27:33even though we can do everything there
27:36are a lot of groups out there that
27:37should not be spending money on their
27:39marketing then what I mean by that is
27:41there are so much bad marketing that
27:43goes on out there and if you can only
27:46afford $500 a month you really should
27:48not be outsourcing your marketing
27:49because what can be done for you for
27:51$500 a month you look at it from a
27:53business to business point of view and
27:54if that other group needs to make a
27:56profit very little can be done whereas
27:59that $500 if deployed internally with
28:01your own efforts can do quite a bit more
28:04and it would be better used by getting
28:06experience by going and reading go to
28:09our website read up all of our materials
28:11and so with a lot of them smaller
28:13clients that call us we actually send
28:15them all this material and say listen
28:17we’re not a solution for you we could
28:19take your money but you’re not going to
28:21be happy with the results because quite
28:23frankly we can’t do enough work based on
28:26this budget but here are all these
28:29training materials that we have please
28:31learn how to do this how to do that how
28:33to do this then take that small amount
28:34of budget you have and go and deploy it
28:36much more effectively
28:38and we hope that they can go and do that
28:40the other customers come to us and if
28:42they do have enough budget to come in
28:44under the line for you know our minimum
28:46engagements we look at it and say well
28:48you can’t pay for a full funnel
28:51engagement and do everything right out
28:53the bad and have us build everything
28:54from scrap let’s find the things that
28:56are going to drive immediate traffic and
28:59immediate results to your site
29:00converting traffic that is and customers
29:03and let’s focus on those whether that be
29:06email social SEO PPC whatever it may be
29:09and those clients we come in very laser
29:12focused and what I tell the people here
29:15our marketers and our employees is you
29:18have to find a traction channel for your
29:21clients and I tell every entrepreneur
29:23what’s your traction channel because you
29:26cannot grow without having firm footing
29:28somewhere and they can’t raise their
29:31marketing budget without finding a
29:33positive ROI it’s impossible for small
29:35companies to boil the ocean so you have
29:38to focus and you have to find the
29:40traction channel where you are able to
29:41generate revenue and able to generate
29:43customers so very quickly you lean
29:45methodology test several different
29:47things for clients now luckily we’ve
29:49been doing this for three years and
29:51we’ve seen almost everything they’re
29:53still new stuff that comes around and
29:54when we see something that we’ve already
29:56been able to succeed in we deploy that
29:59without having to do a/b testing or
30:01waste money on lean methodologies there
30:03of testing it before we deploy it so a
30:07lot of times we already know what we’re
30:09supposed to tell our clients and we know
30:10what’s going to help them and we tell
30:12them we’ll start with this and then
30:14let’s scale it as you’re able to
30:16generate revenue from this once we
30:17develop this traction channel let’s now
30:20expand into other methodologies sure you
30:24know we talked earlier about some of the
30:26some of the business failures and what
30:28our audience is obviously going to gain
30:29from that on the flip side of that coin
30:31you know by talking about some of the
30:34successes it sounds as if that would
30:37also be extremely helpful to the
30:40audience in terms of themselves as being
30:42entrepreneurs looking to sort of you
30:45know either start or build their
30:47business so maybe you can take us
30:49through some of your successes
30:52again whether it’s in your last endeavor
30:53or in the current one that you’re in
30:56that you find has been your success and
31:00that you that you feel that would be
31:02helpful to our audience as well so what
31:06I would I kind of preached around the
31:07office quite a bit and what I really
31:09aspire to is simplicity in all things
31:11and so as an entrepreneur and I wrote an
31:16article recently on on on Norcom about I
31:19battle with depression and anxiety which
31:22I think a lot of entrepreneurs suffer
31:23from because they’re just naturally very
31:26driven individuals but with that comes a
31:28level of positive anxiety but anxiety
31:31cuts both ways and it’s something that
31:33runs in my family so I’ve always dealt
31:36with that but there’s there’s something
31:39that I’ve come to the conclusion out and
31:42what I would have done is I’ve been able
31:44to introduce three different people into
31:46my life and they’re all me there’s a
31:48pass me a present me and a future me and
31:52when I look at it this way I’m able to
31:55actually stay saying have work-life
31:57balance because I’ve been able to grow
31:59this company by going home at five
32:01o’clock every day and by coming in I
32:03come in a little early and I’ve looked
32:06at night sometimes but not that often
32:07and it’s because I have young children I
32:09don’t want to give up the best years of
32:10my life as a father to be able to give
32:13them a great inheritance down the road I
32:15feel like I’m shortchanging them from
32:17having a good parent of beginning so
32:18it’s always been a very big folks in
32:19mind to have work/life balance and it is
32:21for all of my employees as well and so
32:23you know it’s interesting it’s
32:25interesting that you say that and I’ll
32:27let you continue in one second here is
32:29that you know in starting this podcast
32:31we not only focus on business and
32:34entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial
32:36programs and courses and training but
32:38the other two most important things are
32:41life lifestyle and of course family and
32:44you know if you’re only focused on one
32:47and two to neglect the other two then
32:50really what does it all mean and so you
32:53know I think it’s nice that you’re
32:55saying saying this to us because one it
32:58lets us know a little bit more about you
33:00and our audience of trusted friends you
33:03know can see you a little bit better but
33:05I think it’s also extremely helpful
33:07because there’s a lot of entrepreneurs
33:09out there who for one reason or another
33:12are either working for someone else who
33:14are beautiful to get started because
33:16they either say to themselves how can I
33:19do it you know I don’t have the you know
33:21the backing or the money or the
33:23resources or I have a family and so I
33:25need this nine-to-five job and I can’t
33:28really sort of start this thing up on
33:29the side and so when they start to see
33:32and hear other people doing it and that
33:35they’re successful not that they’re
33:36going to be that person but it lets them
33:38know that gee I can probably do this as
33:42so I think that’s very powerful message
33:45to everyone
33:46yeah and it’s true because you read
33:49these articles about you know Elon Musk
33:51that sleeps in his boardroom in his
33:53offices I mean he’s also you know it’s
33:56very public about saying he was a
33:58terrible husband and his wife should
34:01have got the good stuff like that the
34:02guy is maniacally driven am i that
34:04individual I have Drive but I also want
34:07to have quality of life and I don’t
34:08think that people need to say just
34:10because I want to build the next
34:11billion-dollar industry I have to
34:12sacrifice everything you need a
34:14successful entrepreneur and still manage
34:16to have a real life and the way I’ve
34:18done that is by having those three
34:20personas past me presently future me any
34:23regrets I might have over previous
34:25business or anything or anything that
34:26happened yesterday or the day before it
34:29is done by past me and the only thing
34:31that can bring me is usually regrets
34:33because human beings for some reason we
34:35regret the past and we have anxiety
34:39about the future and instead of being
34:41happy and really you can only be happy
34:43in the present so what I do is I use
34:46strict scheduling very strict scheduling
34:48and systems that I set up that manage me
34:51so I don’t have to manage myself because
34:53every person is lazy and every person is
34:56their own worst enemy so I let systems
34:58manage me so I schedule my days the day
35:00before down to the minute and the only
35:04time I don’t schedule is when I’m out of
35:06the office when I leave the office I’m
35:08off the clock I have to think about
35:09anything and I get to go hang out with
35:11my kids and what’s great about that is
35:12when I go home if I go to my kids
35:15again I’m not worried about what’s
35:17happening tomorrow I don’t even think
35:18about tomorrow because that’s future me
35:21and it was already taken care of by past
35:23me I know that he’s already scheduled my
35:25he already has done all the things that
35:27need to be done and I don’t have to
35:29think about it and so when I come into
35:30work the next day presently just walks
35:32in I don’t think about a thing I just
35:34follow my schedule I’m not worried about
35:36yesterday I’m not worried about tomorrow
35:38I know what big projects are on the
35:40board I know all of these things but I
35:42get to be happy and I don’t have to work
35:43with the stress and the buzzing of a
35:45thousand different things flying around
35:46my head because that’s handled those
35:49other guys so that’s one strategy and
35:51one thing that I’ve done I think it made
35:52me very successful it’s stripped down
35:55everything that that usually causes me
35:59anxiety and stress and worried that
36:01Oscars just live off of and it made it
36:03simple it’s just I worry about what’s
36:05happening right now because all the
36:07other stuff was taken care of did you
36:09hear that trusted friends a lot of value
36:11bombs that Mike just gave us and that is
36:14if you’re out there you really can be a
36:17success and balance work family and life
36:21and you know it’s interesting Mike
36:23because you know our last podcast
36:25episode we talked a little bit about
36:27Marcus Aurelius who was the last good
36:29Roman Emperor and basically what he said
36:31is you know you can’t do anything about
36:33the the past you shouldn’t really fret
36:36over the future you really need to
36:39basically concentrate on what’s really
36:41basically in front of you and he was
36:44really way before his time and he
36:46actually said that 2,000 years ago
36:48that’s what resonated with me when you
36:49were talking about your past and your
36:51present in your future so very very
36:53powerful and really a lot of wisdom that
36:56you provided our audience our fastpitch
36:58Mitchel Chad rode calm slash books for
37:02books audio books guest recommendations
37:05and the books that I read to start off
37:08each day sponsors are fast pitch my book
37:12club recommendations I get Mitchell Chad
37:14rode calm slash books to see more of my
37:18recommendations and recommendations of
37:20our guests just go to Mitchell Chad
37:22wrote calm slash books it’s your number
37:24one resource for book reviews and
37:27recommendation like we just asked some
37:29fast questions looking for some fast
37:31answers and then you know we’ll ask you
37:33like some partying pieces of wisdom and
37:35then maybe how everybody can basically
37:37stay in contact with you till we we
37:39actually speak again so tell us the best
37:42business advice you ever received best
37:44business advice I ever received hmm I
37:47received some really good one I would
37:49say revenue cures everything and I
37:52totally agree with that
37:53a lot of people worry about all the set
37:55pieces but honestly if revenue is not
37:57coming in the door none of that matters
37:58if revenue is coming in the door
38:00everything seems less significant so
38:02that is real best business book best
38:06business book oh it was doing hard the
38:12hard thing about doing hard things by
38:15Horowitz not Ben Horowitz okay yeah well
38:19definitely will definitely have a link
38:21on that I know just from from listening
38:23to you today on the listen up podcast
38:25you know you’re into quote so that that
38:28lets me into my next fast question here
38:30in your favorite quote saying or mantra
38:32that you kind of you know something that
38:35you go by every day or you know
38:36something that resonates with you and
38:38you know will empower people so we have
38:42around our offices there are quotes over
38:44all the walls all over the place you
38:46look there’s quotes there’s one that’s
38:48right outside of our break room that
38:51everybody really loves and that is one
38:52of my favorites and it says change your
38:54thoughts and you change your world
38:55because it goes back to a thing about
38:58simplicity and being happy in the moment
39:00most of the time what you’re worried
39:02about and what you’re sad about what
39:04you’re anxious about which are all these
39:05things about isn’t even real it’s
39:07fabricated in your own head and your
39:09situation doesn’t dictate your mood your
39:12mood dictates your situation so I love
39:13that quote change your friend you know
39:15who said that because I know that just
39:17mentioned him before Marcus Aurelius but
39:19he basically said something like that so
39:22a very very powerful quote how about an
39:25app that helps you or your customers
39:27solve issues it could be in your
39:29personal life for your for your family
39:32it could be for your business or just
39:34something that you recommend because you
39:36know you’ve you’ve heard good things
39:38about it
39:39you know what honestly it’s when I went
39:40back to it’s one of the simplest apps in
39:42the world it can be any app but Google
39:44Calendar I have it on my phone I have it
39:46on my computer and it allows me to never
39:48stress about what’s coming next because
39:50I’ve already taken care of it it keeps
39:51me on track
39:52it is my assistant it is my schedule it
39:56is everything and it I take all my
39:58worries all my anxiety all my stress and
40:01I put it into my calendar and then it
40:03manages it for me because I do at some
40:05point I know how to manage myself in the
40:07future but my calendar manages it and
40:09it’s do the app I use more than anything
40:11else in the world
40:12I don’t think about anymore because just
40:14becomes so part of my daily routine but
40:16it’s indispensable perfect and you know
40:18just a parting piece of wisdom and then
40:20how everybody in the audience can can
40:22get in contact with you stay in touch
40:24and then we’ll until we say goodbye
40:27okay get parking beautiful piece of
40:31wisdom is stop comparing yourself to
40:33everyone else a couple years back I was
40:36so just worked up over the fact that my
40:39company wasn’t going X fast or that fast
40:42or this fast because all I read were
40:44headlines of billion dollar valuations
40:46and multi-million dollar investments and
40:49all these things and I just thought
40:50that’s where the action is and now my
40:52inbox and news feed is filled up with
40:54company laying off and company going
40:57under and company doesn’t have a product
40:59that works because they’ve raised
41:00billions of dollars what might seem
41:03really impressive one day will seem very
41:05foolish the next and really all you can
41:07worry about is your company and your
41:09results and that’s all you should worry
41:11about don’t worry about your competitors
41:13just crush them move forward there they
41:17should be the ones worrying about you do
41:19you is what happened tell people yeah no
41:20no that’s that’s really terrific Mike
41:22our wrap-up round Mitchel Chad Rowe calm
41:26/ photos for all your graphic design
41:30needs and how can everybody get in
41:33contact with you so my email is Mike at
41:37Fox Hill marketing comm I give it out
41:39freely it’s on our website I’m always
41:41happy to email people I usually mail
41:44back very very quickly they can always
41:45get a hold of me there you can follow me
41:47on twitter at mike templum in one the
41:50number one or you can look
41:52my columns on and
41:55entrepreneur calm no no that’s that’s
41:57really super Mike let me tell you
41:58trusted friends out there this is such
42:01an important topic and and certainly
42:04something that everybody needs to
42:06educate themselves about and take action
42:08on so we’re really happy that we had
42:11Mike on the show today he not only is
42:14good at what he does but he sounds like
42:16a really good person and someone that we
42:18can trust and that’s what we’re all
42:20looking for so again Mike I just want to
42:22thank you very much for you taking the
42:23time to come on to the listen up podcast
42:25and talk to our audience we really look
42:27forward at keeping in contact with you
42:29we wish you all the best eight stay
42:31connected to us as well well I
42:33appreciate that mental anytime thank you
42:34very much for the opportunity sure hey
42:36take care now bye bye in closing let me
42:38have for my listeners help first please
42:40subscribe to my email list at Mitchell
42:43Chad Road comm slash sign up you will
42:45get all the full interview transcripts
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42:50talk about these free resources in show
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42:57materials and other resources just by
42:59signing up at Mitchell chadroy comm
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43:11it’s your life you go out with back at
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43:18help me boost the rankings of the listen
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43:43until next time

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