You are currently viewing Corporate Governance Women Directors Board Bench Entrepreneur Nancy May Show 044

Corporate Governance Women Directors Board Bench Entrepreneur Nancy May Show 044

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0:00you’re listening to the listen up show
0:01darn up entrepreneur podcast I’m
0:03Mitchell Chad Rowe your host today we’re
0:05here with bored bench company’s
0:08entrepreneur Nancy may show zero four
0:12four four two rules to being a great
0:14woman and the first rule is you have to
0:16offer help yourself I don’t care what
0:18your ask is or what it’s about but it
0:19has to be for yourself and nobody else
0:21it’s your time to be selfish and because
0:23women are not really good at asking for
0:24help and and then the other rule is is
0:26which we do extremely well is that you
0:28open your resource in your rolodex to
0:30people in that particular room and

0:32because you try their trusted group of
0:34individuals and they do friends it’s
0:39your business it’s your family if you’re
0:41like let’s get started what is board
0:44venj companies we are a corporate
0:47governance operation or company that
0:49works with public and private companies
0:51we have two sides of the business that
0:53we work with the public and private
0:54companies to help them deal with
0:55director succession meaning recruiting
0:58retirement of directors board
1:00evaluations how to make boards better
1:02and stronger of what they do and then
1:04also we work with director compensation
1:06so how do you pay directors properly on
1:08the other side as we work with
1:09candidates a production to the business
1:11and working with error and to get on
1:13boards and don’t know how to get there
1:14coach them and how to package themselves
1:16and how to market and more aggressively
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2:02the show and see how are you doing this
2:04I’m doing great Mitchell how are you
2:06super we really appreciate you coming on
2:08Nancy what’s the one
2:10thing that contributes most to your
2:12success I would say that it is a
2:14constant working towards learning new
2:17new tools and resources and pieces of
2:20information that are going to add value
2:21to my business but more importantly more
2:23value to the clients and people that I
2:25work with also pushing the envelope
2:27being as creative as possible and
2:29solving problems and reaching out and
2:31connecting and networking which is a
2:33good portion of what I do so how did you
2:36actually get into niche where not only
2:38are you helping directors but you’re
2:40also help women directors doing you know
2:42corporate coverage actually I was well
2:44into the business years back or a client
2:46are we doing my background is marketing
2:49and strategy and product design and
2:50development early on in the Indicom and
2:53Taipei way back when actually starting
2:55in the semiconductor industry then I
2:56went out and built my own strategy
2:57business and a client said chief
2:59everything you’re doing for me as a CEO
3:01is extremely valuable I really need to
3:04help like that in the boardroom can you
3:06work with me so I started to do some
3:07work with really six ever for that DL
3:09and then I started to add and quite
3:12frankly my philosophy was it was a lot
3:14easier and more enjoyable – rewarding to
3:17work at the top of the house in the
3:18middle of the bottom of the house our
3:20start-up around for all your hosting
3:22needs head on over to Mitchell Chad Road
3:24comm slash hosting Mitchell Chad Road
3:27comm flash hosting for all your web
3:30hosting need who do you used to host
3:32this website I that’s how I started to
3:34get into the board work and was early on
3:36before boards are where they are today
3:38was still bit of an old boys network and
3:40I thought that maybe the first thing to
3:43do would be only work with women in the
3:45boardroom and as much as I support women
3:48and I will continue to the day I die it
3:50was the fastest way back then to get
3:53into bankruptcy but not be in a business
3:55because companies and boards weren’t
3:57really looking for women at the time
3:58they said they were but they weren’t so
4:00much they also was that some of your
4:02early struggles in terms of starting out
4:05in this particular niche in that it was
4:07hard for you to basically help women not
4:10because you didn’t want to but because
4:12it was difficult to basically get women
4:15onto boards – tell us a little bit about
4:17those struggles and and and who actually
4:19helped you then continue to get your
4:22how did you market yourself how did you
4:24strategize to sort of overcome that
4:27obstacle so challenge was was really
4:30sort of twofold with the corporation it
4:32was really before the conversations of
4:34getting women on board and having that
4:36strong diversity component was there
4:39there are a lot of information and
4:40resources out there for helping women
4:42get up the corporate ladder but there
4:44really wasn’t a whole lot going on in
4:46the boardroom and quite frankly the
4:48women that were there you know forgive
4:50anybody of your listeners who may be one
4:52of those but a lot of them really were
4:54the old guard women they used to refer
4:56them as the queen bee and the queen bees
4:58were noted for managing and owning their
5:02throne shall we say and really being
5:05inclusive and allowing other women into
5:08that boardroom it was their domain and
5:10was that with with do you think that
5:12that philosophy came because it was
5:14obviously extremely defensive figuring
5:17that they they didn’t want anybody to
5:18encroach because they feared that that
5:20would somehow jeopardize their own
5:22position so it doesn’t seem like a real
5:25leadership type of mindset yeah I would
5:28say that was probably the case the same
5:30thing in the corporate world there were
5:32some amazing women that I worked with
5:34who were strong leaders and then there
5:35were a few that ruled by fear not
5:38necessarily just in keeping the women at
5:40bay but a couple them really you know my
5:42boss early on there was one woman I
5:44remember I was at J Walter Thompson
5:46advertising and he said don’t work with
5:48Mary Ann she’ll cut your head off before
5:51you walk through the door he will by
5:53fear and intimidation it worked very
5:55well for her but not so much for the
5:57other people around them so who do you
5:59find yourself now working with white
6:01women leaders what companies I know that
6:03you also work with not only corporation
6:06but obviously individual ladies trying
6:09to get on to board can you talk to us a
6:10little bit about that and how you
6:12actually got your foot in the door with
6:14those companies and those individuals I
6:16started with with referrals and
6:18networking and people who knew me and
6:19trusted me quite frankly and by the end
6:22to say we’d like to have a conversation
6:23about this I learned what was going on
6:26in the boardroom space what worked what
6:27didn’t work from from the big global
6:29competitors and recruiters that were out
6:31there and I tried to do something
6:33differently that was a
6:34only service-oriented that was deep into
6:37research exceptionally honest I didn’t
6:39have any payback to give to other other
6:41clients that might have been you know
6:43general component or jobs which happens
6:45a lot in the industry so I was truly
6:48obligated to the needs and the values
6:51the outcomes of my clients in the board
6:53room only had no other agenda so that
6:55are you able to talk to us a little bit
6:56about specifics in terms of the types of
6:59companies that you’ve been able to sort
7:01of work with and help and also some
7:04individuals maybe know if they’re
7:06well-known companies or tell us a little
7:09bit about the type of clients that
7:10you’re working with specifically if you
7:12could well I will tell you about the the
7:14industries and and and generally types
7:17of companies I don’t mention names
7:19because of confidentiality and I signed
7:21you know confidential agreements with a
7:23lot of them not everybody does that but
7:25I hold the trust that we have with our
7:26board members very very close but do
7:29they allow you after you’ve been working
7:32with them for a little bit as well as
7:33the person that you play to then mention
7:36who that is so that it can actually help
7:39you in gaining additional business yeah
7:41a lot of them do not but they do they
7:43will be serviced as referrals for me so
7:45I picked you know pick up the phones if
7:47I need a referral I’ll call you know Jim
7:49or John or Sally or sue whatever and say
7:50you know would you act as a direct
7:52referral here is this yeah so maybe the
7:54type of individuals that you work with
7:56or the type of companies maybe maybe
7:58that would be more helpful than so we
8:00are we only work in the boardroom so
8:02that’s our area of specialty we don’t
8:04work in vertical Nicias necessarily from
8:06the industry perspective but we’ve
8:08worked with some of the largest
8:10financial institutions in the world
8:11depending upon how the market is going
8:13you want in particularly in the top rate
8:15and all the way down biotech company
8:17that was a smaller younger company that
8:19had an outside activist investor we’ve
8:21worked in boarding and consumer good
8:24we’ve worked in manufacturing it really
8:26has run again education health care
8:28market it has run the gamut in
8:30industries and what I find is a toward
8:33room are fairly similar and I mean
8:35they’re they’re similar in structure in
8:36many cases it’s the dynamics in the
8:38boardroom that change and people are
8:40serving what happens a little bit about
8:42those dynamic changing and corporate
8:44governance that you see as well as the
8:47of obviously getting women onto the
8:49board that you have found over the
8:50decades well let’s start with women
8:52first if we may the role or the the
8:55interest of corporations bringing women
8:57on board is changed obviously here in
8:59the United States and world worldwide as
9:01there have been mandates
9:03put in more internationally than they
9:04have in the state the United States here
9:06there’s if there is a lot more pressure
9:08going on from even from a legislative
9:09perspective which I’m not sure it will
9:11actually happen 100% from an from a
9:14national perspective I just learned the
9:17other day that Pennsylvania has mandated
9:19that I think it’s 2020 they affect all
9:22public companies to have 30 percent of
9:23their board to be diverse that includes
9:26minorities as well as as women and had
9:28other statement there as it relates to
9:31it just so happens that I’m physically
9:32located in Pennsylvania but the podcast
9:34goes across the u.s. so how does some of
9:37the other state and are you saying that
9:38Pennsylvania is a leader in that area I
9:40don’t have those statistics information
9:42certainly finding them out for you and
9:44and send them on there that was
9:45something Elaine I research because I
9:48think that we would all be curious as a
9:49lot of our audience as you know are
9:52women entrepreneurs not only with their
9:54own businesses but also with their own
9:55careers as well professionally so there
9:58are a number of research organizations
9:59that are out there being tabs on what’s
10:01happening state-by-state icon is one
10:03it’s a not-for-profit that has actually
10:05been working on each state initiative to
10:07look at what’s happening with the number
10:08of women on public company board
10:10private company boards a little bit more
10:12difficult to find that out because the
10:14information is not always public however
10:15research has aided from what would have
10:18been accessible is that the private
10:19company boards are even less diverse and
10:22it’s more difficult for women to get on
10:23those particular boards over the years
10:25icon is one a CalPERS California state
10:28you know pension program has also done a
10:30program called 3d directors where they
10:32have a list of women directors Atlanta
10:34in Georgia has a group that has a women
10:36on both Canada has been very aggressive
10:38as well but obviously outside of our
10:40state or our countries I know that’s
10:43been very aggressive in getting women on
10:45board and maybe Gress is not the term
10:47but you know forward and correct and
10:49there are a number of activist on will
10:51call them or progressive folk that are
10:53actually only investing in companies
10:55that have more women and diversity
10:57directors on their board and so you talk
10:59to us will
11:00little bit about your early background
11:02as a marketing person as a strategist
11:05and so I know that you had also
11:07mentioned referral sources other than
11:09that what other ways I think that people
11:11would be curious to find out how are you
11:13actually getting to these clients you
11:16mention opry financial institution it
11:18just so happens that that’s my
11:19particular background as well so I’ve
11:21acted as investment council and Bank and
11:24Trust Council for four major
11:25corporations financial in nature how did
11:28you actually get in what has been your
11:30strategies that have worked for you
11:32because whether it’s someone trying to
11:34get onto a board or someone who’s trying
11:36to land that deal with that company how
11:39have you been able to do it in your
11:41niche well I write or I write for a
11:43publication called the chief executive
11:44forum magazine which goes out to about
11:4620,000 CEOs around the country so that’s
11:49a very tight market something that is
11:51the audience that I need to speak to I’m
11:54a member of a number of associations and
11:55groups that deal with CEOs and board so
11:58I’m visible there I speak to different
12:00industry groups that relate to that both
12:02from the general counsel perspective are
12:03spoken to General Counsel’s CFO that
12:06particular audience I have particular
12:08group of women in this particular case
12:11that were drawn networker one another
12:12once and once every other month we get
12:14together I actually call it
12:16Nancy’s great Women’s Network and I said
12:18they’re actually two rules to being a
12:19great woman and the first rule is you
12:21have to offer help yourself I don’t care
12:23what your ask is or what it’s about but
12:25it has to be for yourself and nobody
12:27else it’s your turn to be selfish and
12:28because women are not really good at
12:30asking for help and then the other rule
12:32is is which we do extremely well is that
12:34you open your resource in your rolodex
12:36to people in that particular room and
12:38because you try their trusted group of
12:40individuals and they do and we’ve been
12:42doing this for a number of years and
12:43guarded that if they close out three
12:45years ago I’ve been doing it for a long
12:47fascinating peek at one of these
12:48particular engagements you mean to tell
12:50me a president of a major corporation
12:52just walks up to you afterward just
12:54starts to chitchat and says hey by the
12:56way we need somebody on our board can
12:58you do that search for us how does it
13:00actually happen what happens typically
13:02as the conversational say I’d like to
13:04talk to you further about some of the
13:05work you do and then we’ll have a phone
13:07conversation or you know face-to-face
13:09conversation and I’ll find out a little
13:11bit more what’s going on inside
13:13wardroom it could be a director who’s
13:15retiring it could be somebody that had
13:17been difficult that they want to get rid
13:18of I had that with you know one one
13:20client not too long ago had actually
13:22hired or bought a director on that they
13:25knew as a friend and then when he got
13:27into the boardroom
13:27he was toxic he was rude disruptive
13:31didn’t come prepared challenge
13:33management to a point that was not
13:36productive it was actually disruptive
13:38and they were uncomfortable in letting
13:41this guy go but for they lived with this
13:43thorn in their side for almost four and
13:45a half years until they said it was time
13:47for him not to stand for reelection
13:48somebody was strong enough to say hey
13:50time for you to go Joe and or not came
13:53for reelection is typically what they do
13:54on the flip side of that you’re also
13:56working with people trying to get them
13:59placed onto the board so your client is
14:01the individual as opposed to the
14:03corporation talk to us a little bit
14:04about some of the issues in working
14:07through because that person’s coming
14:09into a culture in a subculture where
14:11there might be issues tell us some of
14:13the things that you’ve had to work
14:14through in helping to place them and
14:17sort of walking them through all the
14:18various issues that the company is
14:20dealing with basically so there’s two
14:22sides to that is if the company is my
14:25client and I’ve got a lineup of
14:27prospective candidates for that
14:29particular company we will when we get a
14:31shortlist of individuals after we’ve
14:33reviewed them with the corporation and
14:35we’ve narrowed it down to a shorter list
14:37I will say I will have a phone
14:38conversation or an in-person
14:39conversation with every single
14:41individual explaining some of the
14:43dynamics that are going on within the
14:45parameters that were allowed to talk
14:47about help them understand the the
14:49personalities around the table some of
14:51the challenges of their company going
14:52through why their background is of value
14:55or where there may be some uphill
14:57challenges and so they are properly
14:59informed before they walk into an
15:02interview with with a director or a
15:04group of directors that’s on that side
15:06on the candidate coaching side which is
15:08a separate business altogether it’s
15:10coaching individuals one-on-one who want
15:12to get on board there are some key
15:14things that that I inevitably find right
15:17across the board I would say 95% of
15:21those individuals are not packaged
15:23properly meaning their information on
15:25how they present themselves
15:27from an employee perspective versus a
15:29candidate perspective to serve on a
15:31board or board pier is totally
15:33disconnected so we typically work in the
15:36beginning on just racking that up to a
15:39higher level of visibility so the
15:40position is a board person so talk to us
15:42a little bit about somebody who might be
15:44extremely qualified but for whatever
15:46reason whether it be on paper or the way
15:48that they’ve come across in the past has
15:50prevented them from sort of getting on
15:52to a board what have you coached them or
15:54what have you sort of done to help them
15:56and on the flip side what have you done
15:58with the company in terms of presenting
16:00the company in a more appealing way that
16:02attracts higher caliber type of
16:04individual where maybe people in the
16:06past have shied away from it because
16:08they don’t want to sort of deal with all
16:09the chaos and all the various issues so
16:12on the other candidates either candidate
16:14coaching side there I’ll give you two
16:16examples one was female and one was male
16:18female was really reported right into
16:21the CEO with a vice-chairman level
16:23extremely competent and talented
16:25individual but she just didn’t know how
16:28to present her accomplishments in a
16:30quantifiable and valued way from a board
16:33perspective once we were done with work
16:36you know we worked back and forth I
16:38don’t do the work directly I coach the
16:40individual to own their work and walk
16:42through this with them very tightly
16:44every week we have phone calls and
16:46conversations about how to do this and
16:48they work through the process at the end
16:50I’ll take it and we’ll tweak it and
16:52polish it up a little bit but they have
16:54to own the material they lived it I
16:56haven’t and they can’t speak to it to
16:58somebody else then we failed but at the
17:00end about seven weeks she looked at the
17:02material and I said you know he’s the
17:04terms name Susie I so if you Susie and
17:06Joseph my general terms with what I’m
17:08talking about these individuals is a
17:10city what do you think about this person
17:12now is on paper and she she actually it
17:15could hear her light up on the function
17:16of oh my god I don’t recognize this
17:18person I said but it’s you if everything
17:20you’ve done we’ve done nothing different
17:22than they highlight and bring your your
17:24great accomplishments to the to the
17:26forefront she goes I know that I just
17:28didn’t know how to uncover it myself
17:29though and she’s out there you know
17:31networking it’s changed the conversation
17:33totally for where she was before which
17:36is no I think because this is such a
17:38high niche
17:39board governance working with not only
17:42women going onto a board how do you
17:44structure how you get paid at the end of
17:47the day I think people would be curious
17:48for their own business in terms of how
17:50they structure their own their own
17:52compensation how do you do that because
17:55with someone like that your hand holding
17:57a lot more than someone who’s already
17:59polished who’s already very sharp and
18:01sort of you’re able to present them a
18:04quicker manner so how do you compensate
18:06yourself for those cases that are a
18:09little bit more challenging well if I
18:10find that there’s a little bit more
18:11challenge I typically you know put a
18:13higher fee on it but it’s a fee for
18:15service for the coaching I have very
18:17depend upon after an initial
18:19conversation I do what I call an upfront
18:21conversation where we really just sort
18:23of go through a deep dive and I present
18:25them with an overview of where I think
18:27they are aware I think their challenges
18:28are working through opportunities are
18:30and and where I think the roadblocks are
18:32going to be and how we can work together
18:33and I give them typically three options
18:36you know package a B or C and the first
18:38could be just putting your material
18:40together so they’re packaged properly
18:41and ready to mark themselves by
18:43themselves and then the others are you
18:45know hand-holding then consulting and
18:47coaching them through the process in
18:49terms of numbers just to kind of go a
18:51little bit a little bit deeper is there
18:53a formula is it based on what the person
18:55salary was is it based on a number of
18:58hours provided is it based on the what
19:01the overall package might be with a
19:03particular corporation that talked to us
19:05a little bit about how those three
19:07packages look so for the individual the
19:09individual coaching I set them up based
19:12on sort of deliverables or time frames
19:14the first one I deliver so it be
19:16deliverable so we’re packaging somebody
19:18because obviously a Bayona CV and that
19:20at end of story was done typically runs
19:22about seven to ten weeks though I’ve got
19:25you know I’ve got a set fee for that
19:27knowing what’s going to have on the on
19:29the coaching side the process of where
19:30how you get on a board I do it based in
19:33you can you give us a rough guess like
19:34how many clients would you work with in
19:36that space in a 52 weeks and at one
19:38year’s period of time I’m very selective
19:40so I can I can work from I don’t know
19:44I’ve actually looked there from a 52
19:46week time period should be honest with
19:47you I haven’t counted them up but
19:49typically I’ll work with no more than
19:51about five at a time
19:52five or six at a time and a flat fee
19:54might range anywhere from flat can you
19:58give us an idea yeah flat fee on that
20:00will range from about 12,500 on up to
20:03about 19,000 depending upon the
20:06difficulty and complexity of that
20:07package alone sure
20:09and then only on the corporation side
20:10how does the corporation’s then sort of
20:13compensate you and what are some of the
20:15issues were the packages that you work
20:17with through with them so a corporation
20:20if they’re dealing with a directory
20:21succession it’s a again a flat fee
20:23because we don’t work like a regular
20:25search firm would based on a percentage
20:27of salary and we on the board side also
20:30I want to add that we will work with
20:32corporations to coach them through the
20:34process so if they want to own it and do
20:36it themselves we’ll do that as well and
20:38and on the low side for that we’re doing
20:40about you know $30,000 it’s a quick
20:42in-and-out type of thing corporation is
20:44hiring you if the corporation is hiring
20:46to do to do in this particular case I’m
20:49talking about a review of one individual
20:51that they may have looked at and said we
20:53want to do an independent review how do
20:55we do and go through that so that would
20:57be a fairly inexpensive type of product
20:59or service so we’re doing about $30,000
21:01there and how many of those might you do
21:04in a typical year oh that could be about
21:0625 30 yeah Canada Canada correct and
21:09what other types of things with the
21:11corporation then hire you to sort of
21:13revenue becomes a scalability some of
21:15the some of the entrepreneurs out there
21:17gal up and sort of hire more people
21:19others or solopreneurs and it’s sort of
21:22themselves and you could only be at one
21:24place at one time and so people are
21:26curious as to how you actually structure
21:30that terms those are you capped at what
21:32you can sort of earn in this particular
21:34niche yes we are very niche oriented
21:36business I do not work below the
21:38boardroom so of the kind of business or
21:40in is not scalable as if it were a
21:42general search firm which is very
21:44different and I’ll be honest with you
21:45that it is what it is it’s a small to
21:49medium sized business something that
21:50we’ve done extremely well on personally
21:53and professionally and and I love the
21:55work that we do so and we’re trusted and
21:57respected but on the on the board search
22:01side itself that ranges from on the
22:05both sides we’re doing 75,000 it goes to
22:08about 150 per individual candidate and
22:11how many of those might you do in a
22:13year’s time
22:13this gives the audience the ability to
22:16appreciate your business and sort of
22:18kind of take them inside a little bit in
22:20terms of helping them appreciate a
22:23little bit about what you’re doing day
22:25to day sure I understand that can that
22:28ranges depending upon what’s going on in
22:30the market from it could be you know
22:32small it could be doing ten of them on
22:34up to about twenty five or thirty of
22:36them and in terms of your own
22:38competition again at this level because
22:40it’s a buckets it’s not below the board
22:42it’s at the board level with not knowing
22:44the industry as well obviously as you do
22:46can you talk to us a little bit about
22:48competition out there I mean obviously
22:50there you say it’s not scalable I mean
22:52are there there must be you know
22:54entities out there that are that are
22:56much larger in terms of just the numbers
22:58of people in terms of the quantity but
23:01can you talk to us a little bit about at
23:03this level what what type of competition
23:05you sort of face so we face actually
23:09sees a lot of competition from the large
23:11global search firm they’re big names
23:12that everybody knows out there what they
23:14are dealing with is not just the boards
23:16the boards or the board practice is
23:19actually small not not dissimilar to the
23:22size of our business it’s over their
23:24business that is large
23:25it’s the recruiting and the search work
23:28and the consulting work in the c-suite
23:30and below so finding CEOs finding CFOs
23:33recruiting CIOs or check people it could
23:36be and CFOs accountants junior level
23:39people that’s where the scalability is
23:42in hiring and coaching shall we say you
23:44know an executive coach of the executive
23:47team the body of a corporation in this
23:50business talk to us a little bit about
23:52it looks as if you have a lot of past
23:55and current experiences with with
23:57several advisory boards I mean I see
24:00here Norris onyx incorporated economic
24:03ventures I know that your you had
24:05mentioned being involved with a Women’s
24:08Forum group so I see
24:10International Women’s Forum Economic
24:12Club of New York I mean talk to us a
24:14little bit about that because how do you
24:16sort of balance being involved with all
24:18of that and then your your day to day
24:20stuff here at at the company
24:22it’s a tough time I have taken them on
24:25usually one or two at a time from a
24:27board perspective or an advisory role I
24:30actually in each particular case that
24:33I’m working with either on a board or
24:34advisory board role will be very
24:36specific about my time and availability
24:38and they will let me know what is what
24:41what they need from me if a board or a
24:44group it could be entrepreneurs or
24:47others that need my help and support
24:49cannot do that then I will typically
24:52pass I need to know exactly what’s
24:53expected to you why and where I can be
24:55of help otherwise if I can’t get that
24:58information I find it’s of no value to
25:00them and it can be a waste of my time
25:01that we’re chasing you know we’re
25:03herding cats as they say in fact I was
25:05just sizing a young company that’s
25:07starting up a non-profit have great
25:09respect for the founders and they are
25:11just asking anybody who’s writing a
25:13check to be on the board I said
25:14absolutely not you don’t have to do that
25:16this is what you need to do so I gave
25:18them some advice on how to structure
25:20what it is they look for so I’m waiting
25:22to see what that that board role job
25:25description is from them at the moment
25:28so that so that I can help them make the
25:30right decisions on and and so
25:32specifically with with economic ventures
25:34for example here it says you know that
25:37you’re the chairman of the board how did
25:38you get involved with that tell us a
25:40little bit about that and give us some
25:42insight there economic ventures is is an
25:45educational organization and they work
25:48with middle and high school students to
25:50teach them entrepreneurship and how to
25:52create sustainable businesses versus
25:54just Hobby jobs and they’ve been
25:55extremely successful it was all called a
25:58spinoff from the Kauffman Foundation
26:00which was taken out by one of one by one
26:03my name is or is run by the Newman
26:05woman’s Carey McIndoe out of New York
26:07Kerry is an extreme entrepreneur she’s a
26:10terrific lady and started in the venture
26:12capital world up in Boston and we’ve
26:14been friends for I state I was out 25 30
26:17years so it’s enough it’s enough for
26:19profit correct correct correct
26:20interestingly enough a few months back
26:23we had on
26:24tres rossman who actually started tech
26:26girl which actually works with middle
26:29school children in the tech space just
26:31because a lot of girls at that level are
26:34not going into technology heading into
26:37high school so when it talks about
26:39entrepreneurship how have you been able
26:41to sort of get into these schools and
26:43sort of build this nonprofit because
26:45it’s a very you know I have two girls
26:47myself so it’s an interest to a lot of
26:50people and so how have you been able to
26:51do that when working in the school space
26:54is very difficult
26:55they have budgets the timelines what
26:57carrie has done is actually gone around
26:59the school system on the outside and do
27:02them as off school or off school our
27:05type of program there’s a lot that goes
27:07on in the summer time for vacation
27:09period and then one on one smaller
27:11groups that are that are going on
27:13throughout the school year after school
27:14system so she’s done that she’s also
27:16worked with community groups there’s a
27:19number of large church and and religious
27:22groups that she’s worked with where they
27:24are concerned about the quality of the
27:26education and the future of their
27:27children and that has been very
27:29successful for her including with state
27:31government organizations that are
27:33looking at economic development down the
27:35road how do you how do you make sure
27:36that these children have an opportunity
27:38to to grow and become independent
27:40successful kids detective a success that
27:42successful adults so as a non-profit I
27:46think you had mentioned the Kauffman
27:47Foundation I’m not sure if you did or
27:48not but how does it generate how does it
27:51generate money in terms of do you charge
27:53are these after school courses I know
27:56that with tech girls for example they
27:58they actually created their own and it
28:01downloadable on their website so what
28:03does economic ventures do to the revenue
28:06model is it charge at the
28:07fee-for-service program so they charge
28:09for that they also have grants and and
28:11donors that get involved in the
28:13organization that they has done they
28:15grant to do programs and support them as
28:17well and is that the same type of thing
28:19as Economic Club of New York II hear ya
28:22the Economic Club of New York is is a
28:25very different organization I am NOT on
28:27the board air I’m a member of that
28:29particular organization it’s a very well
28:30known old established organization of
28:32economist Willie
28:33around the country in many cases around
28:36the world that come in to talk about the
28:38state of the economy finances they’ve
28:40now started to add some entrepreneurs
28:42they had Brian Chesky who is the founder
28:44and CEO of Airbnb recently they’re
28:47Howard Schultz will be coming Boone to
28:49talk about what’s happening in Starbucks
28:52Hillary Clinton is been there over the
28:53years Donald Trump when he was running
28:55for office whether you like him or not
28:56not to get political here on either
28:58there’s Ben Bernanke would come and talk
29:01about the state of the economy though it
29:03is it’s an incredible opportunity to
29:05meet and and learn and get to know some
29:08of the most brilliant minds and economic
29:12growth in the country and are you still
29:13involved on the advisory board at the
29:15neuro Sonic’s and if so can you tell us
29:18a little bit about you know what they’ve
29:19been involved there ya know a Sonic’s
29:21winding down right now it was really
29:23sort of ahead of its time and I would
29:25say lost his way like know Sonic’s was a
29:28really incredible sense of sort of
29:29technology that was able to use brain
29:32waves to project images on on to
29:36tactical events they were looking to get
29:38into the government and do a lot of work
29:40from a military strategic planning but
29:43it was a sort of a futuristic type of
29:46way to he had that the brain waves to
29:51project we yeah you know it’s
29:54interesting you said that it was ahead
29:56of its time and it’s winding down so it
29:59doesn’t sound like when I hear someone
30:02say that you know I hear that
30:05it might not have been as successful as
30:07one might have thought and so but you
30:10learn a lot from from those those
30:12failures or at least what you’ve learned
30:15along the way so can you talk to some of
30:18the entrepreneurs out there in terms of
30:20lessons learned so that you can impart
30:23some wisdom as they as they look to
30:25their own businesses in terms of what to
30:27avoid or what to do because you know
30:29they’re working on all different types
30:31of technology right I would say you know
30:33the biggest challenge I think a very
30:35talented and creative entrepreneur has
30:37is probably not to be what I call
30:40bleeding edge versus leading edge
30:44getting too far ahead of a curve when
30:46the markets not able
30:47or available to accept or use an an idea
30:51or an outcome is very challenging and
30:53it’s frustrating for the entrepreneur
30:54seeing it a number of times and so the
30:57market is just not ready to accept or
30:59embrace either product or service and it
31:01does happen the best thing to do is try
31:04and figure out how to when you can be as
31:07one corporation I’ve worked with in the
31:09past they never like to be a front
31:11leader they like to be a fast second
31:13sure and that’s why we talk about
31:15validating your idea in other words
31:17going out testing a smaller smaller
31:20segment of the market to see if it’s
31:22even a viable option in terms of you
31:25know will will people pay true dollars
31:28for for that product or service before
31:32before totally scaling up your right the
31:35other thing I think and I’ve seen this a
31:37number of times would it be a product or
31:39service oriented type of entrepreneurial
31:41business is that if you are
31:43uncomfortable selling if you don’t like
31:46to go out and talk to people and make a
31:48transaction you know have a cash
31:52transaction happen at the end then don’t
31:55get into business for yourself is very
31:58difficult and we’re or maybe maybe
32:01because we’ve talked about teams and I’m
32:03going to be asking you about yours in a
32:04little bit but where where maybe some of
32:07your strengths might not lie bringing
32:09somebody in whether as a contractor or
32:12as an employee or somebody who has those
32:15skill sets that you don’t have to sort
32:17of complement what it is that you’re
32:19doing whether it be a co-founder or what
32:22have you
32:22what would you agree I would agree I
32:23still would say that the entrepreneur
32:25themselves have to be able to be
32:27comfortable making a sale making a
32:29transaction putting the sale
32:30responsibility on somebody else is very
32:32difficult to make it work in the
32:34beginning and I just see time and time
32:36again unless they’re actually an owner
32:38and have pain that that’s going to
32:41happen if it doesn’t close there’s
32:42things don’t go work that I think that’s
32:44that’s that’s key number one for
32:47we’ve already spoken about a lot of the
32:48boards and a lot of the other
32:50involvement that you’ve had but in terms
32:52of your community involvement especially
32:54with two girls myself it says here that
32:56you were on the board they
32:58in Connecticut for the Girl Scouts can
33:01you talk to us a little bit about how
33:03you got involved with that and some of
33:05the good works that you were doing there
33:06I love my time in the boy with the girls
33:08guys it was it was exciting and
33:10frustrating at the same time so I was a
33:12Girl Scout I started out in brownies my
33:14mother was a Girl Scout leader and I’m
33:16still close friends with some of the
33:18girls have women that were also Girl
33:20Scouts with me and their moms that were
33:22our leaders friend was on the board
33:24locally and said that to me that she
33:26they were looking for other directors to
33:28Geor people to join the board of
33:30directors and I asked what that entailed
33:32and she explained and gave me an outline
33:34and I said well I’d actually love to be
33:36able to give that to the girls because I
33:38was a Girl Scout
33:39and so I was invited to join the board
33:42at the time they did not necessarily
33:43have a detailed job description when I
33:46got there and eventually ended up
33:48sharing the nominating and Governance
33:49Committee that changed because quite
33:53quickly over time they had Theta people
33:55who came on and didn’t do the work and
33:57so we don’t know what the roles and
33:58responsibilities are and what’s expected
34:01of us how can we commit or to help any
34:03organization you know be happy with the
34:05outcomes of the individuals that are on
34:07the board you know two of the fun facts
34:10that I that I uncovered about you and
34:12I’ll just get you to sort of comment on
34:16the one I thought was really cool and I
34:18want to you know and here here you can
34:20sort of brag a little bit you know we we
34:22talk about you know you have to ask you
34:23got to be a little you know you got got
34:25to reflect says here that the United
34:28States Small Business Administration
34:30honor as state of Connecticut’s women’s
34:32business advocate of the year so how
34:34does one sort of get thrown in the ring
34:37for that how do you sort of gain that
34:39type of visibility to sort of rise above
34:43all the other because I’m sure the
34:45competition was kind of steep that year
34:47so how does how does someone like
34:49yourself do that I know that you’ve
34:52already spoken to us about how you write
34:54and how you go out and put yourself out
34:56there in lecture but you know that
35:00doesn’t tell us how you sort of still
35:01then went ahead above and beyond and
35:03differentiated to sort of get that well
35:06in that year or in that era then I had
35:10also been voted in as
35:12of an organization called the
35:14entrepreneurial Women’s Network in
35:15Fairfield County Connecticut which was a
35:18165 member organization that I joined
35:21because I saw an article when I first
35:23went into business for myself now 28
35:25years ago and I said kind of all by
35:27myself I saw this great article that
35:28other women getting together why are not
35:30you like a family group by just going
35:32and join there and joining with her
35:34there lobster bake which I did and one
35:37thing led to another as I said if you
35:40don’t want to be charged with the
35:41responsibility keep your mouth shut and
35:43I just kept opening my mouth saying have
35:45you thought can we do this business and
35:47yeah I opened my mouth wink too many
35:50times and they said we’d like to
35:52nominate you as president and I thought
35:54okay what does that entail besides other
35:56things and I learned but they had 165
35:58members they were losing 40% of their
36:00members a year which was not a positive
36:02way to move into a leadership role so I
36:04thought okay we’ve got to make some
36:06changes we did some structural and
36:07strategic changes to the organization we
36:10also changed out the board this was one
36:12of my early governance involvements to
36:14where we had a board of about 35 people
36:17and I asked everybody to resign retire
36:20and we restructured the board to a board
36:23of eight people and we went from 165
36:26losing 40 percent a year to 425 members
36:29in a year national recognition of groups
36:32wanting to organize or people wanted to
36:34start either we went around the country
36:35and that was one of the ways that I
36:37gained visibility I loved the work that
36:39I did there and it was exciting and I
36:42learned a whole hell a lot I got crazy
36:44business from the two and and there’s so
36:46much power in that story but the most
36:49powerful thing that I want the people in
36:51the audience to sort of take away from
36:53it is is that from reading one small
36:56article which obviously wasn’t so small
36:59you actually took some action and sort
37:02of moved towards towards that and from
37:05that it opened up all of these various
37:06doors you know a lot of people are out
37:08there thinking you know how can I get in
37:10or how can I make this possible or
37:12whatever there’s just one small little
37:14thing that might be the difference
37:16between either getting in or not getting
37:18in it’s just a matter of putting
37:19yourself out there and I think I think
37:21that’s pretty cool yeah I would say the
37:23one key word to all of this is
37:26never be afraid to ask for anything I’ll
37:30tell what it is but never be afraid to
37:32ask you know it’s interesting I always
37:34tell my girls if you don’t ask me the
37:36answer is always no so they’ve learned
37:38that the answer so so they’ve learned
37:42that if they if they you know the answer
37:45still may be now but if they don’t ask
37:47right it’ll always stay now so you never
37:50know I might surprise you and on more
37:53than one occasion I have because I knew
37:55what they were doing and I said you know
37:57what I’m gonna I’m going to say yes now
37:59because of the initiative that they talk
38:01to just merely ass so that’s also kind
38:04of kind of a cool story there you know
38:06the the other the other cool thing that
38:08I saw here and with without obviously
38:10getting too political is it says you
38:12were invited to meet President Clinton
38:14has a nation’s top business leader so
38:17did you actually get to meet uh I wasn’t
38:19clean I did I was on stage with them
38:22tell me tell me all about that because
38:24people people want that they want to
38:27know how did you actually make that
38:30happen people don’t get to meet
38:32presidents no they say that they don’t
38:34and you laugh you’re talking about your
38:37kids like my husband you know I came
38:39home from that event when that night and
38:41he said so what happened and he just
38:43sort of turned red he said you didn’t
38:45like oh please your hand do something
38:47silly did you and I said no I did
38:49nothing silly like you know he’s always
38:51knows that if there’s a way for me to
38:53wiggle my way in a door I will get there
38:55so in this particular case I got I got a
38:58call from from the Democratic Committee
39:00who said you know the president is
39:02coming into town we’ve invited some of
39:05the country’s top small business leaders
39:07to to be part of the conversation and
39:10we’d like to invite you and I thought oh
39:11geez you know I really don’t have a lot
39:13of time as like wait a second it’s the
39:14president of the states how often do you
39:16get that opportunity not not not very
39:18often right so I said okay I guess I can
39:21afford the day off and I and I I went
39:24down to where he was in Stanford
39:26Connecticut and there was we’re all
39:28sitting in an audience and I didn’t
39:30realize that it was just Connecticut
39:31these were five hundreds of small
39:33business owners from around the country
39:34they came as far away from his Alaska I
39:36had no idea so I was a real honor
39:39that I was aware what a privilege it was
39:42and then somebody from the stage came
39:45down is that we have one seat left on
39:47the stage and we need to fill it is
39:49there anybody who would like to sit
39:51before he finished the sentence I was up
39:53and next woman I’m running to it so so
39:55at the time that the person contacted
39:58you you knew that you were going to go
39:59down to hear him speak
40:00but you had absolutely no idea that you
40:03were going to actually then at some
40:05point possibly be up on stage with him
40:08correct and and out of curiosity how was
40:12it that the person who invited you there
40:14how did you what were you doing in your
40:17community that made them contact you to
40:20even invite you in the first place
40:24Mitchell I wish I knew that answer I
40:26don’t know I mean I got I just got a
40:28call the night before to say you’ve been
40:32selected would you like to come and I
40:34and you and you never found out exactly
40:37how it was that you were selected or who
40:39who said hey you need to contact this
40:41person or what have you and so the
40:44interesting thing about it is is that
40:46there’s so many different opportunities
40:47you just never know and I’ll bet you
40:50that the story is is that you probably
40:53met somebody there that you’re probably
40:54still in contact with to this day can
40:57you can you tell us about that
40:59well I don’t think there’s anybody that
41:01I’ve met that I met that particular
41:04event that I’m still in contact with but
41:07there have been people in in the
41:08government that I are passed across we
41:11stayed in loose contact Carol Browner
41:14who was second in charge of the EPA I
41:16met in Washington and I remember her
41:19asking me what’s it like to be an
41:21entrepreneur and because she was
41:24concerned about leaving the
41:26administration at the end of every
41:28administration they all change out and
41:30she was nervous you know about about
41:32doing this and going out she was having
41:34a child I was going to go into college
41:36soon and she was thinking about going
41:38into business with another individual
41:40out of the administration and I said
41:42Carol I would much rather be an
41:43entrepreneur because I’m in control of
41:45my future I know what I can do I can get
41:48anywhere I particularly want as an
41:50entrepreneur as long as I work at it
41:52you in government you have to look for a
41:54job every four years I don’t want that
41:56job and she didn’t understand it
42:00it is it is quite a different mindset is
42:03it not yes yes I also want to know it
42:06was like emotionally to be an
42:07entrepreneur and I’m used this with
42:09friends before and I said well at any
42:11stage of the game there are highs and
42:13lows so I’ve never had this illness but
42:16my sense is it’s kind of like being
42:18bipolar you can be up in the morning
42:20down at lunch and flying high again at
42:22the edge by dinnertime and every day is
42:25an exciting ride no matter how you
42:27market but it’s yours to make it succeed
42:32and don’t need that that’s the joy
42:34that’s awesome
42:35our Fast Pitch Mitchell Chad Road comm
42:39slash books for books audiobooks guests
42:43recommendations and the books that I
42:45read to start off each day sponsors are
42:49fast pitch my book club recommendations
42:52that get Mitchell Chad Road calm slash
42:54books to see more of my recommendations
42:57and recommendations of our guests just
42:59go to Mitchell Chad wrote calm slash
43:01books it’s your number one resource for
43:04book reviews and recommendations so Kate
43:07can you tell us about a book that’s
43:09influenced you whether it be in business
43:11personal or life I’ve just recently read
43:14a book called bet evil and bet evil is
43:16worried about gentleman who was a writer
43:19in New York who basically gave up his
43:21life to take care of his aging mother
43:22and I’m dealing with that right now with
43:24my parents who I love very dearly time
43:26consuming but a great gave me great
43:27cause it was it was a wonderfully
43:29written book my brothers well you know
43:31it’s interesting about taking care on
43:33Harriet that’s obviously getting older
43:35and then the kind of the circle kind of
43:36comes full circle around where they took
43:39care of you while you were growing up
43:41and now you’re you’re in the process of
43:42doing the same and the podcast is not
43:45just about entrepreneurship and business
43:47it’s about business family in life and
43:49how people obviously balance all three
43:52of those and one of the things that we
43:53didn’t get into earlier in the podcast
43:55because we you know sometimes these
43:57questions will elicit other things from
44:00from our guests is that how do you then
44:02balance taking care of your parents
44:04obviously having a business and having
44:07other employees that that are also
44:09dependent upon you as well and then you
44:11have outside involvement with community
44:13activities and I’m sure I’m sure it’s a
44:16challenge it is a challenge I would
44:18considered very rewarding because
44:20there’s so many things my dad was an
44:21entrepreneur too
44:22he took over a business from from his
44:24his father so I had that that sort of
44:26role model growing and what type of
44:28business did they have my dad designed a
44:30manufactured eyeglass frame so all the
44:32frames that Elton John and Jackie O and
44:34the politicians were famous for wearing
44:36those are my dad Wow yeah so just a
44:38really neat niche like that because when
44:41you think of you know people are trying
44:42to come up with ideas hey what can I do
44:44and here that particular idea I don’t
44:47know how many people would think of hey
44:49let me do that but yet very successful
44:51and a very very specialized niche again
44:54because of the the higher quality and
44:56the higher design correct absolutely and
44:58I’m still learning some of the things
44:59that he did that will be 97 this year
45:01that that I didn’t know about that are
45:03coming out so that’s pretty exciting so
45:05I’m you know I sit by it’s a different I
45:08consider it really a side business
45:10because that’s what I’m doing managing
45:11their finances their care the housing
45:13all the you know all investments that
45:16they’ve got medical issues it’s just you
45:18know I put my business hat and say it is
45:20mom and dad LLC you know what I love it
45:24and it almost sounds like a totally
45:26another podcast show that we could
45:29actually do just geared towards that so
45:32what happened to the business what my
45:34dad what they I learned about unions
45:36they struggle through the Union
45:37challenges in New York they eventually
45:39move the business from New York where I
45:41grew up originally up to Massachusetts
45:43and revitalise we turned around the
45:45business and my dad sold the business to
45:47his brother who desperately wanted my
45:49mom wanted out that let’s retire so he
45:51sold the business to his brother and
45:52unfortunately my uncle didn’t like the
45:55cell and the business went downhill from
45:57there and when we we’ve talked before
45:59about succession planning and working
46:02with the second and third generation and
46:04how do you how do you have a cohesive
46:05legacy plan within the business just
46:07very interesting far as productivity
46:09goes you know there’s the we you know
46:11we’ve heard the saying there’s an app
46:12for that
46:13so what would you say
46:15is an app that you use all the time
46:17whether it be in business family or life
46:19that has really helped you quite a bit
46:21oh how do you productivity in focus I’m
46:23not sure there’s actually a per se one
46:26that I use the one that I’ve recently
46:27started to use is mind focus it will
46:32it’s a site called focus it will good
46:34I just put my headphones on when I need
46:36to close everything out and audio design
46:39tool that helps the brain just a can
46:42totally focus on what it is you’re doing
46:44at the time and I found that to be very
46:47helpful we talked to a lot of startups
46:49and they’re there trying to get started
46:51that is a website and so we talked to
46:54them about well who you use for hosting
46:56who’s good like I use Hostgator for
46:58example to host my numerous niche sites
47:00or whatever so who do you work with
47:01could you use there’s a there’s a low
47:03here in Connecticut that has theirs of
47:05servers that I rely on and he’s been
47:08he’s been the you know a solid source so
47:10I don’t use a GoDaddy or anything like
47:12that I use his business and he holds it
47:14take care of everything we’ve got our
47:16sites designed on on a platform called
47:18concrete 5 so that anyone of us here can
47:20go in and make changes and edit of the
47:22content we’re not we’re not reliant on
47:24an outside you know tech person to do
47:27that for us which I prefer because it
47:28gives us the fluidity of what we want to
47:31put in there and when we want to take it
47:32off and look the last question in this
47:34round really goes again toward being
47:36resourceful because one of the things
47:38that our entrepreneurs like to do is
47:40leverage resources they can’t go out and
47:42hire let’s say a graphic designer
47:44and so they have to rely on other means
47:47and so for me like I use canva quite a
47:49bit for my own graphic design in my
47:51photo so who do you who do you use or
47:53who do you work with oh well I Rea I I
47:56rely on myself a lot quite frankly
47:57because I had a degree I’ve taken some
48:00time off and did a degree in commercial
48:02advertising and design as well so I have
48:04a good sense of design and I know what
48:05what I like and what I don’t like if you
48:07use a tool though I mean to sort of
48:10complement what it is that you’re doing
48:11and obviously you’re doing a lot of
48:12writing as you had mentioned before and
48:15you do a lot of speaking engagement so
48:17is there is there something that helps
48:18compliment you know for those out there
48:20who let’s say don’t have that type of
48:22background well most recently I was
48:24having problems with presentation I
48:26needed some PowerPoint and it wasn’t
48:28looking good
48:28so I called a friend and hired her to do
48:31through the work and lay it out and that
48:33was a PowerPoint presentation so they
48:35use I use Photoshop when I need it
48:37because you know I not doing a whole lot
48:39of print work because we don’t need to
48:40do the print work you know the basic
48:42desktop publishing tools that were using
48:44particularly things we mentioned your
48:47team I know you have an advisory
48:48committee and I know that you have a few
48:50employees so can you just briefly tell
48:53us a little bit about their backgrounds
48:55kind of gives the audience a little bit
48:56more in-depth as to the company and your
48:59capabilities there or my advisory team
49:02are a group of individuals who have been
49:05CEOs and senior leaders of public
49:07companies as well as entrepreneurial
49:08corporations I rely on them for many as
49:11a sounding board or making sure I’m
49:13making the right decision and some cases
49:15getting some input and say okay I heard
49:17that that was then this is now I need to
49:19make my own decisions so that’s been
49:21very helpful they’ve opened doors for me
49:22which has been good my team I’m sort of
49:25the fun the fun person but that’s always
49:26waited then people call me my brand and
49:29my name that they know behind the scenes
49:31I’ve got writers researchers you know
49:33tech people as I need them or wrap
49:34around Mitchell Chad ro comm slash photo
49:38for all your graphic design needs so
49:41what are the three main takeaways that
49:43people can walk away with that they can
49:46keep in the back of their mind your
49:47advice for them as entrepreneurs and
49:49startups as people trying to get their
49:51side hustle on people who want to try to
49:54get into a corporation whatever those
49:56three main takeaways that you can
49:58provide in terms of the wisdom that
50:00you’ve been able to gain over all these
50:02years okay for entrepreneurs I would say
50:05never be afraid to ask for anything but
50:07if you’re asking for something know that
50:08you have to be able to offer something
50:10in return
50:11it’s not all about you you can add value
50:13to anybody out there doesn’t matter who
50:15they are they could be you know the CEO
50:17of the world if you want to put it that
50:20and there’s always something that you
50:21can offer somebody in return if not now
50:23certainly later on to to is focus a
50:26focus on what it is you want to achieve
50:28and make sure that somebody has a need
50:30for it and three and three your your
50:33best salesperson and how could people
50:34stay in contact with you Nancy they can
50:37contact me through our website which is
50:42send me an email at na at Fort Bend
50:44Chaco Nancy may this has been such a
50:47Nancy may president CEO of board venture
50:50companies we want to just thank you once
50:52again and we’re really looking forward
50:54to keeping in contact with you Gary Gary
50:57more as we go forward
50:58thank you make sure I look forward to
50:59learning how I can be of service to you
51:01to take care I’ll be good
51:02okay bye-bye in closing let me ask for
51:05my listeners help first please subscribe
51:07to my email list at Mitchell Chad Road
51:09comm slash sign up you will get all the
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51:25just by signing up at Mitchell chadroy
51:27comm slash sign up
51:37it’s your life go back at Mitchell
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51:45boost the rankings of the listen up show
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52:02Chad Road comm / sign up thank you so
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52:09until next time

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