https://youtu.be/aZ79FLqNNSE
The post Fintech Artificial Intelligence Brett King Cofounder Moven Show 007 was first published on mitchellchadrow.com
Transcript Show 007
0:00you’re listening to the listen up show
0:01startup entrepreneur podcast on Mitchell
0:03Chado your host today on shows your own
0:06your own Devon today we’re here with red
0:08King’s friend your business it’s your
0:14family if you’re like let’s get started
0:16breaking CEO and founder of moving dot
0:20com and moving mobile app
0:22he’s also a radio host on w.e NJ 1160 in
0:27New York nine million monthly listeners
0:30on radio voice America he has been
0:32featured in tedtalks let’s get right
0:35into red king and a great great
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1:21Chad row.com / side now enjoy the show
1:25why don’t you introduce yourself tell us
1:27your story and how you got to where you
1:29are today man you asked that question
1:32straight out of the gate
1:33I’m so I am I wear many different hats
1:38these days I am gratefully a
1:41best-selling author and just launching
1:44my fifth book right now it’s called
1:45augmented life in the smartly already
1:48today as I look at amazon is the number
1:51one new release in biotechnology and
1:53robotics so that’s that’s pretty cool
1:55my fifth book previously i did thanks to
1:59point out French today gone tomorrow
2:01back three point out and breaking banks
2:03so I was a futurist in the banking space
2:06augmented is is a general look at the
2:09the future and how society is going to
2:11adapt and my background now
2:13is in technology and I’ve always been in
2:17the intersection between technology and
2:19business I started as a proto
2:21programming many years ago and then
2:25worked in project management introducing
2:27technology into the large organizations
2:29had my own software business at the age
2:32of 22 and expanded that in the sort of a
2:37smaller you know multinational
2:40investment we had representation in 23
2:43countries outside of australia where is
2:45my home country the time when the hong
2:47kong in 99 to lead the e-business
2:50practice for deloitte at the time based
2:54in Hong Kong then join an advertising
2:57agency called modem media which is so
3:01now part of the publisher script I
3:02understand and then from there and went
3:06to Dubai for five years I’d started up a
3:09financial services training company on
3:11the side that sort of took off during me
3:13the boom in Dubai and when the financial
3:16crisis hit I took a year off and write
3:19my first book which is back to point out
3:21that became a best-seller in 20
3:23countries it was translated into a dozen
3:26languages and that led me to sort of get
3:29on the speaking circuit talking about
3:31the future of banking and have
3:32technology was changing money and the
3:35payments and those things and then that
3:38led me to the very obvious next decision
3:41which was to start my own near bankers
3:45we call a next-generation bank based on
3:48the smartphone which are called moving
3:50so moving is a start-up they’re based in
3:52New York with a base 24 million dollars
3:54today we have essentially the world’s
3:56first downloadable bank account you can
3:59sign up in the app for a bank account it
4:01takes you listen two minutes and today
4:03we send you a card
4:05you know the typical mastercard that you
4:08can use that in the future we won’t even
4:10have to send your colleagues be a user
4:11phone and on top of that i run a radio
4:15show and we just got breaking bank and
4:18that’s the number-one FinTech radio show
4:19on the planet and on top of that i speak
4:22around the world on the future and last
4:24year did 39 countries so I’m basically I
4:26was pretty
4:27been a guy that post Gator sponsors our
4:29startup around for all your hosting
4:31needs head on over to Mitchell Chad
4:34row.com / hosting again that hostgator
4:37head on over to Mitchell Chad row.com
4:39flash hosting for all your web hosting
4:42need yeah well you know i’ll tell you
4:44what it’s a really amazing story but
4:48what I want to do is I want to kind of
4:49unpack some of that now i know that you
4:52mention move in and I don’t know if you
4:54noticed or not but on episode six on our
4:56show number six we actually recommended
4:58move it so the our listeners know about
5:01moving but it’s really great to be able
5:03to hear it directly from you now I know
5:05that you told us a little bit about what
5:07it is i think maybe go more story about
5:10the exactly i think that would be I
5:12think that would be really really cool
5:14and so I was actually on the book tool
5:17for my first book thanks to point out
5:20and I done i had done
5:22singapore was the launch in April of
5:242010 and then I went to London mmm New
5:28York and New York I met Alex I on alex
5:33is my co-founder of movement so that was
5:35that meeting that we had at the book
5:37watch when I first met him and then i
5:40went from New York to LA and i attended
5:42a breakfast with a group called metal
5:45which is run by a radio host out of the
5:49Los Angeles a guy by the network in
5:52which house key members of various local
5:54business rock stars and Ken hosted this
5:57breakfast and there’s BC guys there and
5:59and movie producers Tim Kring as the
6:02producer of Heroes was there and Billy
6:05Zane reactor and and then there’s all
6:08these entrepreneurs and startups guys
6:10and so forth there as well and they
6:11asked me they asked me to talk about the
6:13book and I talked about message what’s
6:14the future of banking so I described
6:16this bank account in the future how you
6:18download it to your phone and how you
6:21use your phone to pay and that you
6:23wouldn’t go to a bank for advice because
6:25you’d be able to build that advice into
6:27the experience and and yes i was
6:30describing all this one of the guys
6:31there is then William quickly even a
6:34business called clear stone ventures
6:36that they say he said banks and
6:38to do this sunday and that was the
6:40moment when sort of the switchfoot in my
6:43head and I was like you’re right that’s
6:45that that’s the opportunity so literally
6:47and within an hour of that breakfast
6:51finishing i was at farm and one of my
6:52friends places in Malibu where i stayed
6:55that weekend and I had registered the
6:57night demand the main name move and
6:59bank.com and what you also registered
7:02the domain moving bank right we have the
7:05contraction of that now I’m you know as
7:07we started to roll this out and I got my
7:09my Knights who are passionate about this
7:12stuff to sort of going to get involved
7:13and help me with this my friends like
7:16Alex and others around the world and yes
7:18we started testing the concepts and we
7:20got in front of millennials without key
7:22target segment market for this and that
7:26you know they would say so when you guys
7:28watching movement and we’d say why don’t
7:31you guys call it moving banking that you
7:32guys on a bank you cool yeah that was
7:36how we be we are Ivan thanks to move
7:38yeah well you know it is a really
7:40interesting story
7:41yeah well you know it’s interesting
7:42because one of the questions that I had
7:44later on was you know tell us a little
7:46bit about that aha moment that epiphany
7:49that you had and I think that you you
7:50kind of described it really well just
7:52now in terms of you just described it
7:55saying that the light bulb went on and
7:58you know the reason why i’m sewing
7:59prices the company literally touches on
8:02three main industries I mean think about
8:03it you have banking you have mobile
8:05commerce you have the payments industry
8:07and yet it’s not a bank
8:09it’s not a telecom company and it’s not
8:12a car company i mean i am so impressed
8:14now what you’ve actually done is you’ve
8:16combined all three industries into a
8:19digital exclusive business model so
8:22really what I want to do is I just want
8:24to go just a little bit deeper i know
8:26that you started telling us the why is
8:28everything so maybe maybe get a little
8:31bit more incredible y-y-you actually
8:34started I mean I know about the aha
8:36moment a light bulb went on home we know
8:38what it is but but tell us tell us the
8:41why I mean obviously you’re moving away
8:43from traditional banking and financial
8:46products
8:47and on and and allowing people to create
8:49these digital accounts to help them
8:51manage you know tracking their debit
8:53cards and they’re spending but maybe
8:56tell us a little bit about the water so
8:58I you know as an entrepreneur that
9:01there’s got to be a mixture of passion
9:04or belief in what you’re doing and yeah
9:07but there’s always an element they know
9:08if if we’re honest there’s no always an
9:10element of ego to this as well and so
9:13the two sides of the passion for this
9:15was I wanted to redefine what people
9:18thought of as a bank account right and
9:21that in in 10-15 years time when people
9:23are saying looking back and saying the
9:26bank account that we have today is so
9:27different from what it was 40 years ago
9:30these are the guys that did it first
9:31these are the guys who started that and
9:33that was the first that was the the
9:35passion the second piece of this was
9:37that
9:38and as I would go around and talk to
9:40banks around digital disruption and what
9:43technology was going to do and how
9:45consumer behavior is changing and so
9:47forth they would always say yes yes yes
9:49you’re right but this stuff’s really had
9:51to do and i would say no it’s not let me
9:55show you how to build a pic yeah and and
9:57so that you know that was the motivation
9:59as well the show that how how how could
10:02be done now in all fairness it’s not be
10:04easy but it’s the same time you know
10:09it’s it’s it’s nothing impossible and
10:11it’s been and it’s been from my point of
10:15view really interesting growth
10:17experience personally and being a
10:19phenomenal business to be involved in
10:21and start a start-up I mean if you know
10:23when I was ten years ago if you’d said
10:25to me I had no idea I’d be sitting on a
10:27business with a hundred million dollars
10:28of the greys 24 million dollars i’d be
10:30like that way so that’s that’s crazy
10:32talk so it’s just them and and then you
10:35have the success I’ve had with the books
10:37just a TI I feel every day I wake up
10:41you’re high-fiving myself another sister
10:44is right
10:45yeah you know so the listeners out there
10:47thinking to themselves you know they
10:49they might have their own little secret
10:50sauce so what would have been the
10:52company’s differentiator because now
10:55we’re starting to see some competition
10:57committee will talk about that in a
10:59little
10:59it but what has been the company’s
11:01differentiator and then like what is
11:03your differentiator what makes you you
11:06know different special that people are
11:09going to sort of gravitate towards you
11:11as opposed to anybody else coming down
11:13the pike you know you know that that is
11:16creating things as we move forward and
11:19saw this digital world that we live it
11:21so you know when banks trying to do this
11:24stuff they’re slow and unwieldy and yeah
11:27they they often do half baked stuff in
11:29there so you good examples of of that
11:33preceded me the industry now as you have
11:36no and chase and wells and be about
11:40these guys have some competent apps
11:43yeah but you can’t open a bank account
11:45on the phone no you know that there’s
11:47still a strong preference for me to go
11:49into the branch you can do it online but
11:51even then there’s some some pretty
11:53significant restrictions so but there’s
11:56another element of this which is is
11:58really from a point of view and the the
12:02piece of this where we’ve had the most
12:04success i think is really figuring out
12:08behaviourally what makes a real impact
12:10what people really want and if you’re a
12:14banqueting at this you’d say well they
12:17want access to that balance to see the
12:18balance on the fun and maybe you’d say
12:21and they want to see a balance before
12:22they make a payment after they make
12:24their payment may can’t do that with a
12:25piece of plastic so that would be a good
12:27place to start now and that’s sort of
12:29how we started with this but then also
12:31well you know we said what that if you
12:33did download a bank account the phone it
12:35doesn’t have to be designed like the
12:37existing ecosystem so we created this
12:40artifact which we call the spending
12:42media and I know if you profile that on
12:44your show when you talked about moving
12:45previously but it’s when you start the
12:48app the first thing you see is the
12:51spending meter which immediately gives
12:53you an indication of your financial
12:55health if you’re spending below your
12:57typical or average spending for the
12:59month then you the whole app with the
13:02mood of the app is green and turns green
13:04if you’re spending about your typical
13:07spending for the monk the app turns
13:09red-orange actually it’s not quite ready
13:12so and with it and you’ll see that make
13:16the may not affect in the center of the
13:18screen spending many will say you’ve
13:20spent this much this month you spent
13:22this much over your typical spin so I’m
13:24immediately you’re starting to get this
13:26feel for whether or not this month
13:28you’re on track in this month you’re
13:30using your your your friends wisely now
13:33is it turns out that actually am it you
13:37know if you look at out our customers in
13:39New Zealand working with westpac out
13:41partner down there or when you look at
13:43out and a third of our customers here in
13:46the US that use the app on a daily basis
13:48they they start the app up in the
13:50morning and they look at the spending
13:52meter not their bank balance to figure
13:55out
13:55yep can they go out to dinner tonight
13:57with friends can they go to the movies
13:59tonight can they afford that
14:00that’s becoming a really central part to
14:03their day-to-day financial
14:05decision-making and so that is that is a
14:08really unique act out of fact no one
14:09else has anything like that in respect
14:12to that interaction the other component
14:14of course is real time when you tap your
14:17phone or you swipe the card to pay you
14:20get an instant receipt to your phone and
14:22the receipt tells you this is the
14:24merchandise a Starbucks you know you
14:26this is starbucks your bill is know your
14:29your transaction with eleven dollars 50
14:31but did you know that in terms of dining
14:34out you’ve already spent 250 six dollars
14:38this month and that’s already above your
14:40typical which at this stage of the month
14:42would have been a hundred and seventy
14:43dollars right so then you’re looking at
14:45that it’s the you know six or seven of
14:48the mountain looking at then you go
14:50I’ve spent two and fifty dollars on
14:52dining out and you’re sitting in
14:54starbucks when this happens you know
14:56you’re getting this in real time within
14:57half a second usually and suddenly now
15:00there’s a cognitive-behavioral
15:02association with the fact that this type
15:06of activity eating in a restaurant or
15:08sitting in an uber taxi or you’re being
15:12in a starbucks coffee shop these
15:15behaviors have a correlation with my
15:18financial help the decisions I make you
15:21know how many times I got a starbucks in
15:23a week
15:24this is going to affect you know where I
15:26said at the end of the month in terms of
15:27my ability to save so-and-so really the
15:30real Wonder yeah exactly you want your
15:33customers our listeners to make these
15:36smart spending decisions on the go
15:39obviously this is a very specific niche
15:41audience that we have and you want to
15:44provide the solutions to to their
15:46everyday problems you know you talked
15:48about the business model in terms of
15:50like you know we had Alex hard on who
15:53was the former CEO and president of
15:56MasterCard and he was also on the board
15:58at fight go and we talked about fico
16:01scores but there’s something that i read
16:04i believe something about the social
16:05media and how that’s going to build the
16:07score and so you might want to talk
16:09about a little bit about you know how
16:12you build that into to the models that
16:14you that you might use in terms of
16:15spending and things of that nature so I
16:18think what we worked out fairly early on
16:20was that did this
16:22if you take the population and and
16:25whether it is getting healthier from a
16:28physical or no physical health
16:31perspective or whether it is getting
16:32healthier from a financial perspective
16:34there’s a portion of the population who
16:38attacks this with with the real purpose
16:41and is very disciplined about how they
16:44approach that ok I need to lose weight
16:46so i’m going to go to the gym I’m gonna
16:47go everyday im gonna get between either
16:50hours and this is what i’m going to do
16:51that and I’m and they can stick to that
16:53because they’re they’re quite
16:54disciplined same with same with
16:56budgeting know you find groups of people
16:59who feel very comfortable they plan out
17:01their budget they know exactly what
17:03they’re gonna spend on each sort of
17:04activity during the month then out you
17:07able to manage that proactively you know
17:11as as the sort of multiply that if an
17:13unexpected expense comes along they drop
17:16off you know spending on in one other
17:19area that not only is typically about
17:21fifteen to twenty percent of the
17:23population the rest of us just don’t
17:25have that discipline so and I don’t put
17:29myself in that packet so what we wanted
17:31to do was create a tool that didn’t
17:33require you to
17:35commit to planning all that will add you
17:37to do is use the app and at the end of
17:40the amount if you kept it in the grain
17:42you said my hand and it was a very much
17:44that simple so is a gamification call
17:47this discontent typical sure
17:49now tell us a little bit about your
17:51yorkie partnerships I i know that you
17:53mentioned westpac outside the US and and
17:57obviously you’re partnering with a bank
17:59here in the US are you mentioned a
18:02little bit about raising the 24 million
18:04dollars i tell it tell us a little bit
18:06about some of these key partnerships
18:08that you have so we’ve got a range of
18:11different partnerships in the US we have
18:12a bank partner called cbw bank which is
18:15a Kansas City they provide us with the
18:17FDIC no guarantee for the deposits we
18:21take but throw intents and purposes most
18:25customers would see assets that provider
18:27of the bank accounts out our
18:29responsibility to do that but we have a
18:31bank partner that that guarantees that
18:33the funds and helps us with many
18:34movement in that in web in New Zealand
18:37we have West packers licensed the the
18:40app technology that we’ve developed as
18:42you’re giving that to their customers
18:44and TD banking Canada just launched the
18:48without so the couple of months ago and
18:52they’re doing the same so that’s that’s
18:54that’s sort of really in terms of the
18:57technology the number under pins
19:00movement and from a licensing
19:03perspective no canada and new zealand
19:05where we like to have technology but in
19:08the US we have broader relationships for
19:11a consumer space so we’ve got a very
19:13good relationship with mastercard who
19:15supports us with new technologies and so
19:19forth we have partnerships with other
19:21context in the space of a common bond
19:25for helping people every finance their
19:28student loans that much cheaper rates we
19:32have
19:33we have I can get the DNA all the other
19:37credit card you have solid eight ER and
19:39it paid off but thank you i’m always
19:43listen I’m always here to help you Brett
19:44as football an amazon company sponsors
19:48are fastpitch my book club
19:50recommendations that I get Mitchell Chad
19:52row.com / audible that’s new book
19:55augmented life in the SmartLink that can
19:58get it at augmented book.com to see more
20:01of my recommendation and recommendations
20:03of our guests just go to Mitchell Chad
20:05row.com / potable it’s your number one
20:08resource for book reviews and
20:10recommendations this and so pay off that
20:13never for credit card consolidation
20:14we’re doing some stuff with lending club
20:16right now and and some others and you
20:21also talking the betterment about maybe
20:23doing some sort of investment savings
20:25options when we launch into savings you
20:28know in my so well that is very that’s
20:31very exciting because i was actually
20:32going to bring up betterment I it in a
20:34little bit and as you know Alex hard who
20:38we just recently Pete who we just had on
20:40the show he’s actually on the board at
20:43lending club so some some really really
20:45good key partnerships let me ask you
20:49this
20:49we talked a little bit about the
20:51partnerships so let’s just switch gears
20:53just a little bit and talk a little bit
20:55more about your competitors so who are
20:59they armed
21:00what’s the strategy for moving going
21:03forward to basically stay on track as
21:06number one in the space you know digital
21:08banking digital money management
21:09platform you know using all the various
21:12tools which are obviously tied to the
21:14debit card and then basically expanding
21:17into this appear to peer lending I mean
21:20you know digital wallets you know you
21:22have competition from on deck and some
21:25of these other companies but but then
21:26maybe talk to us a little bit about your
21:29competition out there so you know when I
21:31did media training in the old days you
21:34know I was told never to talk about the
21:35competition that that that thing is you
21:39explicitly asked no I think you’re in in
21:42our space is sort of this hybrid or no
21:45bank account
21:46and rethinking that particularly as
21:50you’re going to see our product that
21:52takes shape later in the year and we
21:54have impulse savings which is the next
21:56day chua launching an emergency credit
21:58which is sort of like a a real-time
22:00credit facility based on your behavior
22:02as you walk into a story so if you walk
22:05into trader joes and we know you spend
22:06six hundred dollars then we’ll be able
22:09to say you know you’ve only got three
22:10dollars in the account would you like
22:12the additional training dollars so you
22:14can put complete your grocery shopping
22:16so that you know there’s some features
22:18to that which means that if you think
22:19about where the bank account is going
22:22we’ve really created something that
22:24gives you access to credit access to
22:26savings that not with any of the
22:28conventional products structures that
22:30you would see in a in a typical bank and
22:33we haven’t seen anyone do anything like
22:35that yet that on the mobile front there
22:37are some competent companies you know if
22:39you’re looking at investment then i’ll
22:41be seeing a lot of fun environment if
22:43you look at lending you got the p2p
22:44players i mean III like what credit
22:46comments being able to do on that front
22:48and one really interesting approaches
22:50that is wind up out of San Francisco
22:54with no sexual often and they’re able to
22:57give you this product that helps you you
23:00learned a little bit of money but at the
23:01same time you’re boosting your credit
23:03but use of a credit score trainer and
23:06then you know there’s on the consort of
23:08the mobile bank account and / say you’ve
23:10got a simple sure you don’t you want i
23:14got a year
23:14yeah simple lost about a year before us
23:17but you know and and simple
23:19no they got over they get a phenomenal
23:21product of course that required that BB
23:23a couple years ago so now hadn’t been
23:25going to be partnered up with the bank
23:27corp com out of delaware with betsy
23:29cohen and maybe less they launched they
23:31launched bank or and has just and I
23:33don’t know the acceleration when Google
23:35drop their card program
23:37test the wallet then simple because of
23:41their bank or Association google is also
23:43on Blanco was able to pick up some of
23:46those card holders from google and
23:48google abandoned add celery today
23:51actually
23:52yeah actually betsy cohen is actually
23:54from the Philadelphia area she owned
23:55Jefferson Bank in Philadelphia that was
23:58purchased by hot
23:59and bank and then of course TD bank that
24:03you are working within Canada then
24:05purchase Hudson bank so it’s kind of
24:07like you know keeping musical chairs
24:10with all the different banks that are
24:11being bought and sold and moved around
24:13you mentioned betterment with John Stein
24:16obviously being the CEO crowdfunding
24:19there so that’s that you exciting that
24:22you might be doing some things with them
24:25let me let me ask you this what is your
24:29what is your definition of success
24:31I mean because obviously you’ve you know
24:35you’ve had it sounds as if you you’ve
24:37had some some terrific success to date
24:40so how do you define it all you know as
24:43I said I I now have to set the bar
24:47higher you know I I’d a few years ago I
24:50remember I was probably at 2002-2003 I
24:56remember sitting with a friend and that
24:59having attended an event and those this
25:02phenomenal keynote speaker was actually
25:05the the scientists geo calculator and I
25:09said I really want to do that for a
25:11living I want to be able to make a
25:12living off speaking yeah and I’d love to
25:14write books that know so he is I thought
25:18that’s gonna be my golf when I’m 50 and
25:20retire and and you know I i can do that
25:23and you know that sort of came a lot
25:25earlier than expected that I was able to
25:27do that and in the starter
25:29well obviously know a incredible
25:32opportunity but you know for movement i
25:35think our successes it you know is it i
25:38guess we would define a success twofold
25:40one is I’d like to see 50 million people
25:42around the world using our app to help
25:46them manage their money and save money
25:48and you know a key mechanism and and
25:52that’s also the distributed approach so
25:54this is why we’re licensing and
25:56technology to other banks as well
25:57because we know we got it unlike uber
26:00you can’t just take a bank and go
26:02offshore because there’s always
26:03regulatory hurdles you have every
26:05country go to that’s why you lead
26:08element of a local partner so
26:11you know kind of like I lightweight
26:13white labeling your technology to the
26:15various banks
26:16yeah but you had the same time while
26:17white label it your m.o and launcher
26:21inside inside in someone else’s
26:23environment was in someone else’s brand
26:25its unmistakeably a moving experience
26:28and and that’s really what for us is is
26:31important if if if half of those
26:34customers that have those 50 million
26:37that were targeting other extra few
26:39years if half of them are able to then
26:42use the tool to have you know
26:45constructively save money more money
26:47than they did before they use the app
26:50and then you know that that’s a
26:52phenomenal results so that’s really
26:54that’s out what wonderful
26:56yes certainly so we talked a little bit
26:58about success and you know a lot of the
27:01people in our audience are either
27:03thinking about starting a business
27:04they’re getting involved in in in
27:06starting their business or their taking
27:08it to the next level and they can
27:10actually learn a lot from other ppl
27:12successes but they can also learn a lot
27:15of wisdom from other people’s failure so
27:18can you tell us a little bit about a
27:20business failure that you experienced
27:22and what you learned and how our
27:24audience can gain that type of wisdom
27:27from that failure
27:28mmm yeah well let me let me say no the
27:34steepest learning curve
27:36I’ve had with movement was actually
27:38funding yet is having gotten raise money
27:42and that it’s really tough so if you are
27:44thinking of starting your own business
27:46as an entrepreneur and you think you can
27:47go out and raise money know them tell
27:49you that that was where my steepest
27:50learning that was and then I worked in
27:52the finance sector but this is a whole
27:55new competency but in terms of failures
27:58no I had a training company in the the
28:04middle east which i had started and i
28:08had various partners involved in that
28:10and we we launch this thing in in 2001
28:15it required me to move to divine 2005 to
28:19cope with the growth and by 2008 we were
28:23generating 425 million a year in in
28:26training revenue so it’s a pretty
28:27significant business and we had officers
28:30in china and hong kong and you know in
28:33Dubai where I was based and it was just
28:35this going fantastic we went from that
28:38your 4.8 4.9 million in revenue in 2008
28:42down the 375,000 in 2009 the other
28:47students can you imagine that can track
28:49down on itself it’s pretty pretty
28:51devastating
28:52yeah and and you know you couldn’t you
28:55couldn’t anticipate that you’re
28:56obviously the financial crisis the first
28:58thing people cut was training budget and
29:00budget object but in the midst of that I
29:04had a a a partner that provided us a key
29:08element of our training which was a a
29:10professional certificate and this panel
29:13is based in the US and he got into
29:15financial trouble and he was a lawyer so
29:17his solution was to try and circumvent
29:19the business that we had built and try
29:23and capture of that revenue from us and
29:26by sort of cutting us out of the loop
29:28right and you know at it was a really
29:32really difficult time and this guy just
29:35got just got crazy and started sending
29:38everyone legal notices and in the end
29:40the entire thing collapsed heating
29:44getting out of that we were able to
29:46re-engineer the business and you know it
29:49now we’re back up to do a couple million
29:51a year in revenue but I’ve got no just
29:54an equity investor it now I’ve got a
29:56friend running that business but the
29:58lesson that I learned from that was you
30:02know it will if you are going to pop all
30:04the someone and you’ve got complementary
30:06businesses or you think this
30:08complimentary one your business
30:11shouldn’t be reliant on the partner
30:12because then they know there’s huge
30:16potential issues with that and you’ve
30:18got to anticipate any partnership good
30:20ending in a divorce
30:22and if it does you can you can you exit
30:25that relationship cleanly without you
30:28know massive impact to the business or
30:31you know any reputational risk to the
30:33brand right and you know that that was
30:36sort of the biggest lesson I learned
30:38learned from that and no I I’m not one
30:42of these cynical guys who you know is
30:44you know I don’t like working with
30:46lawyers and and going though the
30:49litigation rat if I can avoid it and
30:52that’s what we’re not talking about that
30:53necessarily but i’m talking about that
30:56you you that it’s really important if
30:59you’re if you’re building a startup and
31:01you want to find a partner to help you
31:03build the startup or if you’re
31:04partnering as businesses you find people
31:07that have the same passions and it’s
31:10it’s and they’re really looking at that
31:13end game with with a different sort of
31:15energy and passion and not that it’s
31:17just a good business relationship
31:19yeah that’s why I asked you about your
31:21partnerships because they’re they’re
31:24really critical are you talked a little
31:26bit earlier about the the technology
31:29disruption and i know you enjoy that
31:31so what’s the next logical product the
31:35next inroads to the financial services
31:37area that that either you would like to
31:39disrupt or you’re thinking about or
31:42what’s that what’s the most logical
31:43entree into into your next step I mean
31:46youyou you mentioned a little bit about
31:48betterment and I’m really excited to
31:50hear about that but maybe maybe you
31:52could just briefly talk about that so
31:55I’m look I think maybe there are four
32:00key destructive areas i’ve i’ve explored
32:03in my new book augmented so mentally the
32:07subtitle is like in the smart ones that
32:09really looks at how no technology is
32:11going to dramatically change the way we
32:13live
32:13the next 20-30 years it’s not a it’s not
32:16a single I already booked it really goes
32:17well that’s a social impact you know
32:19which jobs are at thread and what
32:21opportunities are there and things like
32:23that but there are four major
32:24destructive forces the first is
32:26obviously artificial intelligence and
32:28closely related to that is robotics and
32:31the second is smart infrastructure
32:33everything from autonomous
32:34equals and transport systems through to
32:36renewable energy and smart grids their
32:39magnitudes more efficient and cheaper
32:42than running fossil-fuel generation and
32:44130 million wooden poles in the u.s.
32:48that run electricity around the place
32:49and you know resource allocations not
32:53government smart cities things like that
32:55fall into that category then that every
32:58everywhere experiences distributed and
33:01you know technology everywhere when when
33:03everything is smart when your home is
33:05smart when you’re Kyra smart when you
33:08can talk to a simple AI or voice agent
33:13whether it’s amazon echo or the next
33:15generation Cirie and conduct commerce
33:18for you like booking a restaurant or
33:19booking flights for you and then you
33:23know sensors that we ingest and where
33:25our bodies that lead us to the fourth
33:27disruptive technology which is health
33:30tech and gene editing and changing the
33:32way we think about healthcare and the
33:34way we manage our help at these are the
33:36big four areas so you know I think you
33:40know if you’re going to say banking from
33:42a structural perspective we’ve got the
33:43blockchain it’s going to be important
33:46Commerce which is going to be relegated
33:49no agents machine the machine communist
33:51is going to be huge think about a
33:53self-driving car in 10 years time that
33:57is owned by maybe a a shared collective
34:00group of people may be owned by a city
34:03and then it loves on the Hoopa for three
34:05hours a day and drives through the
34:07network as an autonomous vehicle now you
34:10know it’s getting paid
34:11it’s got a bank account at the bank and
34:13is known human no direct attacks i mean
34:16it is this something really interesting
34:18you know things to think about and that
34:22overall that the biggest one for finance
34:25is advice
34:26it’s going to be completely disrupted by
34:28artificial intelligence and technology
34:31and if you’re an advisor in the
34:33financial services space right now I’d
34:36be able advisors and stuff like that
34:38like robot robot advisor robot advisors
34:41a huge they’re gonna dig into your web
34:43advisor going to be better at investing
34:45then than human advisers they going to
34:47know your investment
34:48I d better than human you know
34:50relationship manager ever could
34:52they’re going to be they’re going to be
34:54a you know adjust and adapt quicker so
34:57you want to have to you can put in
34:58tolerances and we have to call up your
35:00agent say so this asset class or sell
35:03that stock because it’s looking like
35:05going down or they would have to
35:06remember that you told them that if the
35:08price of gold goes below the number of
35:10dollars you want to sell it you know
35:11because that’ll be it can automatically
35:14manage bye-bye robot advisor but so that
35:17the element more important thing is is
35:19advice itself is changing and it’s
35:21becoming real time and connection yet so
35:23you know in terms of trusting smarter
35:25you know in terms of the the traditional
35:28trust business because obviously you
35:30have investment management there you
35:32have a relationship management you can
35:34obviously use disruptive digital
35:36technology to sort of you know change
35:39the game there i mean when you look at
35:41the fiduciary business today trust the
35:43states when you look at the actual
35:45corporate fiduciaries today I mean
35:46there’s not a whole lot of innovation
35:49there’s there’s maybe more followers
35:51than then there are leaders and they
35:53don’t really quite frankly leverage the
35:56technology like like they could so you
35:59know from that perspective how do you
36:01how do you think you know how you’re
36:04going to find like the digital fiduciary
36:05and digital state products and services
36:07going forward I mean you know to be
36:09disruptive for you know your your
36:11typical trust company today just thought
36:14I know if traffic is a pretty specific
36:17you know example it is you know but i
36:21think it it may not necessarily be a
36:24structural thing there are definitely
36:27going to be areas and structurally where
36:31advice at least for the next ten or
36:34twenty years going to be still of value
36:36but operationally management of the
36:39trust there’s no reason that humans
36:41would need to be involved in that so now
36:43that’s where that’s where you actually
36:45you plug it in and you know that’s where
36:49you can get the the capabilities that i
36:53will really be where it would be
36:55differentiated i think also
36:58at that there’s an element are you in
37:03the past when you thought about a trust
37:06or an investment advisor say family
37:08office function or something like that
37:10where you would go to a human who knew
37:13more about the subject than you did this
37:15was this basic principle called
37:17information asymmetry but information
37:20asymmetry has been eroding ever since
37:25the internet came on the scene and AI
37:27really sort of the last piece of that
37:29puzzle where it’s going to be very very
37:31hard for humans to stay differentiated
37:36because at the end of the day and a i
37:39will be able to deal with so much more
37:42information and data and that’s the
37:45informational advantage that day is
37:47going to have so if you’re an analyst or
37:50a advisor taking in information to give
37:53advice than the ability to absorb or
37:56synthesize that information is he your
37:58success and that’s where I eyes will
38:01have the upper hand are wrap up around
38:03is sponsored by snap for all your
38:05graphic design needs head on over to
38:08Mitchell Chad row.com / napa that’s sna
38:12PPA we talked a little bit about
38:15trusting smarter and as far as like
38:17banking smarter digital banking tips or
38:19life hacks and you provide our listeners
38:21would actually you know helped them i
38:23mean obviously we’ve covered a lot today
38:24but just some some quick pithy things
38:27that they can sort of you know gain from
38:29your experience in terms of tips or you
38:32know different tricks that they can they
38:34can use you know from out from the
38:36digital banking perspective so I know
38:39I’m not a personal finance guy but i
38:42will say that there are it is there’s
38:45elements here we asking predictive
38:47analytics which have ghosts actually
38:51very very important and impactful so for
38:55example and you know if you’re thinking
38:57is he thinking of buying and you an
39:01oculus rift VR headset right now you
39:04know because they’re getting popular yet
39:06playstation 41 HTC’s one thing i really
39:10like one of those
39:11but then you say i got enough money in
39:13the account i could afford to buy that
39:15this month
39:15yeah but you forgotten that your life
39:18insurance policy
39:19you’re gonna get a bill for your life
39:20insurance policy in a couple of those
39:22right now I’m and then suddenly you left
39:25the situation where you’re going to be
39:26under pressure to pay you when you on
39:28your insurance and but you got this
39:30brand-new bi headset so yet these are
39:34areas which are just data problems and
39:37so we now studying the sea tools like
39:39prison money and you know build guide
39:42which was acquired by the other
39:46pedophilia and prosper and and things
39:48like that where they’re starting to look
39:50historically your bill payments and
39:52activity and now starting to think about
39:54that predictively so I think that’s
39:56going to be a very important area where
39:58people should try some of those tools
40:00out and see if that’s helpful helpful
40:02for them and I don’t think if you are
40:04gonna if you are interested investment
40:06you know either investing in something
40:09like winning club which is it is
40:12analogous to the old fixed deposit or CD
40:15that you get my bank but are higher
40:18interest rate and now demonstrable e in
40:21lower risk overtime know there’s some
40:23risk but they’re free for the trade-off
40:26of the higher interest rate yet nowhere
40:28near commensurate with your trading in a
40:30more aggressive volatile asset class and
40:33then the you know if you want if you
40:35want to put some money in the venom and
40:36well-funded one of these these guys and
40:39to try at robot advising would recommend
40:41it because i think that there is you
40:43start using these tools i think over the
40:45next few years it’s gonna be a really
40:47important vehicle there for people it’s
40:50going to start off as a supplementary
40:52investment strategy and then have a time
40:55that that could become the primary so I
40:57definitely a few unit I’d tried up
41:00very good I’m we call this next set of
41:02questions what’s on your mind they’re
41:04fast questions fast answers
41:06let’s just keep it light and fun and
41:08let’s see what you have to say on this
41:10would actually be your mantra a quote
41:13that you live by on something that could
41:16motivate people or inspire someone
41:19and i would say and keep moving fast
41:25keep moving fast okay well that’s good
41:28besides your books and we have them all
41:30we’re going to have links to every
41:32single thing that we’ve talked about
41:34today arm at the blog on our show notes
41:38in the transcript for everything that
41:40we’re talking about but can you
41:41recommend a book that influenced you are
41:45that’s benefited you and I could also
41:47benefit our listeners I’m so you know
41:51i’m going to go a little bit left the
41:52field here a book that if you’re
41:55interested what’s happening in be
41:56errands in the world and how it’s going
41:59to be impacted read a book by Neal
42:00Stephenson called Snow Crash do that
42:03ideas is 95 at the sci-fi book that it’s
42:07it’s such an incredible look at have the
42:10I could change the way we live and them
42:12as you know as as as a futurist we’re
42:16finding increasingly that Syfy’s
42:20informing life so besides moving which
42:24we love our name an app that you like
42:27that you enjoy that you use all the time
42:29that just make sure your life a lot
42:31easier and obviously could be beneficial
42:34to two other people out there
42:36yes the pretty obvious what values
42:38google maps all the times I’ve tried
42:39occasionally and I’m good when I’m in a
42:42new city and you know google maps i
42:45would supplement with something like a
42:47swarm or you know em or you know
42:52foursquare for the local knowledge but
42:55yea I’d that that’s that’s what was
42:59really important AmeriCorps some you
43:01know the the various social media
43:03platforms
43:04yep the most important business advice
43:06you ever received
43:08so I remember when I was a fairly in the
43:14sale cycle i had a really experienced
43:16partner from already getting some simple
43:19advice and said if you want six if you
43:21have a staff a good business
43:23relationship with someone go into to
43:26that environment the first meeting and
43:28ask the person if there were three
43:30things that I could solve three today
43:31three problems like
43:32Sophie today what they and guaranteed
43:35that one of them is there somewhere we
43:37can add value terrific someone that you
43:41look up to it could be a hero someone
43:44that you respect and maybe a little bit
43:46as to why that by now I should say my
43:50dad okay and and yeah I’ll up my dad but
43:54at the same time you know I I there’s
43:57one guy am i really enjoy reading now
43:59and he’s a fantastic thinker is Rama’s
44:02Nam and rom is is x microsoft guy
44:06mckenna and did some work for data Betty
44:08now write science fiction and he just to
44:11receive the philip k dick award this
44:13year facebook 8x but if you want to
44:17follow his blog this guy’s one of the
44:19smartest guys on the planet so that’s
44:22terrific right
44:22no no thatthat’s great we’ll definitely
44:24link up to that as well I mean this is
44:26just been so tour if we really
44:28appreciate all the time and everything
44:31that you Father you’ve answered for us
44:33today I know that the audience is going
44:35to gain so much from everything that we
44:37talked about today if people want to
44:39stay in contact with you we always know
44:41about how your book i’m going to have
44:43links to your new book you know for
44:44people to be they know about moving
44:47moving dot com
44:48but how else can people not communicate
44:50with you stay in touch with you and
44:52maybe some parting words for our
44:53listeners before we we sign off here to
44:56also be this way keep in touch with me
44:59is is my twitter feed the outbreak king
45:02is my twitter name and/or if you were
45:04contacted by linkedin or facebook now
45:07i’m truly digital and respect to those
45:10so the relationships now and and you
45:14know moving dot com bret king.com is my
45:16personal website if you want a little
45:18bit more about me and if you’re
45:20interested in the book check out
45:21augmented book.com but the parting words
45:25would be you know if you enjoyed this
45:27interview and you think of some value
45:29wait to your real minted life in the
45:31spotlight it’s in the blood in mind all
45:33that
45:33that’s really awesome Brett and like I
45:35said we will have all the links all the
45:38show notes and and the entire transcript
45:40i just want to thank you so very much
45:42within been a terrific our discussion
45:44I’ve had a lot of fun talking to you and
45:47just wanted to thank you again for
45:48everything
45:49it’s being present thanks Mau take care
45:51of that by now including let me ask for
45:54my listeners help first please subscribe
45:56to my email list at Mitchell Chad
45:58row.com / sign up you will get all the
46:01full interview transcripts my ebook 30
46:04tools to start off where I talk about
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46:10you’ll get the startup checklist
46:11education and training materials and
46:13other resources just by signing up at
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46:19[Music]
46:26back at Mitchell chatter dot-com /
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